Solving Privacy and Security Challenges in Healthcare Data Collaboration

Intro 0:01

Welcome to the She Said Privacy/He Said Security Podcast, like any good marriage, we will debate, evaluate, and sometimes quarrel about how privacy and security impact business in the 21st century.

Jodi Daniels 0:22

Hi, Jodi Daniels, here. I’m the founder and CEO of Red Clover Advisors, a certified women’s privacy consultancy. I’m a privacy consultant and certified informational privacy professional providing practical privacy advice to overwhelmed companies.

Justin Daniels 0:35

Hello. I am Justin Daniels, I am a shareholder and corporate M&A and tech transaction lawyer at the law firm, Baker Donelson, advising companies in the deployment and scaling of technology. Since data is critical to every transaction, I help clients make informed business decisions while managing data privacy and cyber security risk. And when needed, I lead the legal cyber data breach response brigade.

Jodi Daniels 0:59

And this episode is brought to you by Red Clover Advisors, we help companies to comply with data privacy laws and establish customer trust so that they can grow and nurture integrity. We work with companies in a variety of fields, including technology e commerce, professional services and digital media. In short, we use data privacy to transform the way companies do business together. We’re creating a future where there’s greater trust between companies and consumers to learn more and to check out our best-selling book, Data Reimagined: Building Trust One Byte at a Time, visit redcloveradvisors.com. Well, hello, hello. How are you? 

Justin Daniels 1:34

I have a question like

Jodi Daniels 1:35

I’m sitting next to a five year old kid trying to play jokes on me.

Justin Daniels 1:39

Well, I have a question for our listeners. So I had to get my oil changed this morning, and as I was sitting in the coffee shop, I was able to get my wife a nice coffee. So how many minutes of goodwill. Do you think that I was able to obtain for such Jiffy service?

Jodi Daniels 1:58

Oh, I don’t. Am I supposed to guess now?

Justin Daniels 2:01

Well, you should know that answer.

Jodi Daniels 2:02

Very good cup of coffee. But the best part of the coffee is actually not that you got it, but the cool little topper, because it wasn’t a plastic topper, it’s this cute little wooden topper that I can actually reuse, and it was really lovely. So the coffee was also really good. How was your coffee ordering experience? Mr. I don’t order any coffee.

Justin Daniels 2:21

I just read to them precisely what you told me to. And I guess it turned out okay, but so our audience learns the answer I will have learned, I will have earned, probably less than five minutes of goodwill for my coffee buying.

Jodi Daniels 2:35

Really focus on what we’re learning here, because it’s all about knowing your audience. So see for me to get the appropriate coffee. I had to write it very explicitly to just allow him to take it and read. And then, you know, when you’re working with people, if you’re trying to get them to understand what you need to do, you just have to understand the audience and what is it that they need. All right, let’s try and tie this back to privacy and security, because that is why people are here. Though, the coffee was quite delicious. We have Jason Brenner, who is the RVP of healthcare and life sciences at LiveRamp and has been working in the advertising and tech industry space for 20 plus years. Jason is leading efforts on building data and activity solutions for the healthcare and life science industry, and this is a really growing, fun, fast paced and complicated area. So Jason, we’re really excited to have you on the show.

Jason Brenner 3:28

Oh, it’s my pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me on.

Jodi Daniels 3:31

Welcome to the silliness. We hope you had some coffee, tea.

Jason Brenner 3:35

My coffee-buying experience. I was just on vacation with my family. My wife, unfortunately, had a bit of a sore throat while we were down there, and so I surprised her with some tea and honey on our last day. And she liked the tea a lot at the hotel. It was a lemon ginger mix, and so I took a few extra packets. I have no idea how much goodwill that has bought me.

Jodi Daniels 3:59

Look at that. That was a nice surprise. Those are some ideas for you.

Justin Daniels 4:06

Of course, what do you really find to the audience? That’s what she’s not saying is more important than what she did say. So all right, let’s, let’s learn more about Jason. So Jason, why don’t you tell us a little bit about your career journey? Yeah.

Jason Brenner 4:20

So as Jodi said, I’ve been in ad tech and advertising marketing space for quite some time. Started out in legacy publishing companies, New York Times, Time Inc, and then got really excited about what was happening in the digital space, and worked at a couple different ad networks a lot in the mobile side of the business, mobile and geo location. Back when, like, geo fencing was, like, you know, the hottest thing in town, and location, like, Ooh, that was the newest, coolest data set. And eventually brought me to LiveRamp to work with, you know, identity and connectivity for clients. I think the through line is that i. Always been really interested in solving big challenges for the companies that I worked with. You know, I didn’t want to kind of work around the edges. I didn’t want to be like, Oh, that’s kind of cute. That’s kind of like a nice to have. I really wanted to help solve some significant challenges throughout my career, and I certainly think that today, as you guys know very well, identity, privacy, data collaboration, are all massive topics, and data is such a powerful way that we help brands get closer to their customers.

Jodi Daniels 5:32

Jason in that vein, data collaboration, especially in healthcare and life sciences, is really powerful. It also truly comes with very large and complicated privacy and security challenges. How are you finding companies working through trying to be innovative, trying to solve some real problems, connect people and also make sure that they are protecting that data and in compliance with different laws.

Jason Brenner 6:00

Yeah. So, I mean, look, it is all changing very, very rapidly, right? You know. And you know, sadly, we’re never going to see like, just like one, you know, you know, federal probably privacy law to rule them all. So to speak. We’re going to get, you know, 50 maybe 51 if Canada becomes the next state, 51 privacy loss, that will be fun, but, you know, it’s going to be a fractured environment. So look, I think marketers, you know, will all tell you that they’re spending more time with their lawyers, and they’re spending more time with their lawyers, you know, kind of upstream of the process. And ultimately, I think that’s a good thing, right? You know, because you know, what that hopefully brings is a lot of innovation and truly privacy by design, right? You know, so that you’re going into trying to solve problems through the lens of, okay, how do we do this in a way that we’re not going to be midstream and already sunk like a ton of, you know, capital and coming up with a solution, and then, you know, a lawyer says, like, no, sorry, we actually can’t do that. So I myself spent a lot more time talking to, you know, Chief Privacy officers and lawyers early on in the scoping and discovery process. I think the good news is, is that you know, there are solutions to virtually everything that you know our clients want to do in terms of data collaboration, right? Like, you know, I’ve never gone down the path in, you know, discovery, and we get like, you know, six calls deep, and then we finally figure out, like, at No, we got to tear that all up and kind of start from the beginning. So, you know, I think usually, if you put the customer, as always, at the center of the experience, like, how are we going to unlock better health care outcomes? How are we going to speak to customers in a way that they’re going to actually bring more value into their lives, that you’re going to be able to get access to the data that you need and customers will ultimately appreciate getting more value from the exchange

Jodi Daniels 8:02

Jason, you mentioned how you are working with marketing teams. They’re bringing in their privacy teams and legal teams, and a lot of people struggle to sometimes make that happen. I’m curious if you could share a little bit of as you’re working with companies, when are you finding you’re probably starting with marketing people, and then they’re bringing in the other teams. When does that happen? Is there anything that you can offer that might help someone listening, trying to get their company to do the same thing?

Jason Brenner 8:30

Yeah, so that’s a great question. Honestly, I suggested up front on the first call, you know, if I feel like, you know, overall, that this the customer is kind of, you know, serious about, you know, moving forward, whether it’s an existing customer or someone that I’m speaking to for the first time, I usually raise like, hey. Like, you know, how much does your chief privacy officer have an understanding about what you’re looking to accomplish, right? Like, have you reviewed these use cases yet with privacy or your security teams, or both? And if the answer is no, I say like, Hey, why don’t we bring those folks in, right? You know, let’s make sure that they kind of understand what’s happening from a technical standpoint, like what the overall business objectives are. Because, as always, I feel like getting that stakeholder alignment. Look, it saves my team a lot of time, right, you know. And so I want to understand, you know, sooner rather than later, about who the decision makers are going to be, and just make sure that it, you know, is on the level with what that company’s expectations are.

Jodi Daniels 9:24

I like that. I really like bringing it at the beginning. People could learn from that.

Jason Brenner 9:29

Yeah, you can kind of, I mean, there’s no reason to kind of hide behind these things. I mean, one thing that I like that actually, we’re, I’m coming up, about to head out San Francisco for our LiveRamps, annual client conference ramp up, which you should attend next year. But last year, we had Steve Romany from Eli Lilly speaking as one of our keynoters. And, you know, Steve and I have been working together for many, many years, you know. And one of the things that he talks about, and that this comes right from Lily’s CEO, is that you. Know, you want to kind of gain the trust of customers really upstream in the process, right? So, you know, Lily has a strategy about building a lot more robust kind of first party data and leveraging first party data to power more of their marketing, as well as other kind of aspects of their business, as I’m sure you guys know they launched their own direct to consumer pharma channel, so they’re now directly selling some of their products in the GLP one space, to consumers. And one of the things that they really focus on is, how do we work so that when Eli Lilly does ask for some personal information from the consumer, that they will gladly give that over, feel comfortable giving that over. So really think through, like, how brand awareness is also the time to start building trust really up upstream from any kind of transactional discussion, which I don’t know if maybe this is just me and how I was raised. Like, that’s just good manners, right? Like, you know, you know, walk up to the bar and like, you know, see someone that you like, and you’re like, hey, give me your number, right? It’s like, you know, you got to build towards that. And so I think kind of, you know, building that kind of trust and credibility, you know, up front, you know, really does go a long way. And I think Steve gave some great advice.

Jodi Daniels 11:15

I spew that all the time. It is so much fun to hear someone else say the same thing.

Justin Daniels 11:20

You know, Jason, you could have Jodi come to your next conference in San Francisco, because the last time Jodi was in San Francisco, she ordered coffee, and it was the first time she’d ever dealt with the vendor, and within five or 10 minutes, they were sending her a coupon. Hey, tell us when your birthday is, so that we can give you a coupon. And needless to say, Jodi was a data diva in distress over that corporate data goes to the entire that’s what’s Jason saying.

Jodi Daniels 11:50

Don’t even know your brand. I don’t know if I like your coffee. I haven’t even had a chance to in finish the experience, and you’re asking for a really sensitive data point right away, right? It is all about building the relationship with people so that I give accurate data and I want to be able to engage so in the Eli Lilly example, why are you asking for this? And do I trust you? And if I do, then I will give you more accurate data. But there’s a time and a place to be able to ask for that information, and companies want accurate data. Otherwise, they’re making bad decisions. It’s a no-win situation. Otherwise, 100%.

Justin Daniels 12:27

I think Jason’s given you an idea. Bad privacy hygiene is asking for someone’s number up front. That’s what that coffee company did.

Jason Brenner 12:36

I try to use a lot of these kind of real world you know, analogies, dating analogies, yeah, you don’t know it all. It helps bring it home, right?

Justin Daniels 12:41

I think it resonates really well, good. So, you know, Jason, so, you know, as you work with some of these really large global health care organizations, what are you seeing when it comes to these risks that I was giving the story with Jodi in data sharing collaborations, you know, how can these organizations mitigate these risks, because, as you said, it can get quite complicated and still make meaningful use of the data. What does that look like to

Jason Brenner 13:08

you? Yeah. So, I mean, look it. It’s, we have a, as you guys very well know, a pretty large ecosystem of companies, some large, some kind of startups that are in the space, and they’re and they’re really trying to help these brands navigate how to use their data, kind of safely and securely. There’s, you know, well known companies, like the one that I’m lucky enough to be employed at LiveRamp, you know, where we’re kind of, you know, seen as the authority in data connectivity and identity, right? So, you know, I think, you know, just the years of experience we have, the number of companies that we’re working with, we kind of come to the table with a lot of credibility as we’re guiding clients. And then you have, you know, some really wonderful startup companies that are out there. And you know, like, I know, you talked to my friends over at integral A few weeks ago, you know, and they’ve done a lot of amazing work, you know, as a startup, you know, working in the healthcare space, providing the necessary expert certification to ensure that if you’re leveraging HIPAA data, that you’re doing it in a privacy, safe, de identified fashion. And I think that, you know, the idea is that I always talk to folks, is like, you know, work with the experts in their space, right? Like, you know, if you’re putting together, you know, kind of, you know, this kind of data collaboration, you know, you got to think through the kind of regulatory environment that exists. And to me, that’s kind of just like table stakes, right? Like you have to follow the law. Like that should go without saying. So, hire good lawyers, hire good experts, you know, in privacy, and then really think about your ecosystem. Is, what are each of my partners doing to kind of help solve different facets of privacy and security, like, what ultimately is the business objective that I’m looking to follow? And then think about, like, how I’m gonna assemble my internal team as well as my external partners to help me to navigate that, right? And, you know, no pun intended, but like a lot of that does come down to trust, right? And, you know, there’s some standard things that we can all do. It’s like, hey, those companies I work with, can I see their SOC, two, can I see their, you know, their, their latest, you know, kind of protocols around file they follow privacy. And then a lot of it is, you know, reputational and you know who people, you know, think is going to give them the best results and the best value for the investment. There’s a lot of data out there, and there’s a lot of partners that are willing to work with you collaboratively with that data. So really, to me, the question is like, what do you need to bring to the table in order to make that collaboration successful for the customers that you’re ultimately trying to influence?

Jodi Daniels 15:56

Given that, especially in the healthcare space, there’s a lot of sensitive information. And you mentioned de identification. So some companies worry about, is it really de-identified, or can I eventually re-identify it? And I was hoping you might be able to talk a little bit about, how does LiveRamp help with this de-identification piece, or where is LiveRamps role in you know, enabling this data collaboration, but in a really privacy friendly way, especially when it comes to data like health care data.

Jason Brenner 16:30

Yeah, yeah, sure. So when I got to live, right? You know, six years ago, we didn’t have a platform for the identification of health data. We relied on third party companies, some like folks like data van to kind of tokenize the data. We still partner with data van and others who are in that space of generating tokens to de-identify, you know, patient data, especially when you’re linking that with other data sets. But, you know, we thought there was a lot of strategic value about building out a platform. So again, we asked the experts, you know, we have a wonderful privacy and data ethics team, and we have since day one at LiveRamp, but they all said, it’s like, HIPAA isn’t necessarily our bailiwick, and so we’re going to go out and we’re going to find experts in the HIPAA space from a legal standpoint, from privacy, from a technology standpoint, where we’re going to understand what are our requirements under the Law, as well as, like, what’s the right thing to do on behalf of our customers and their end users, to build a, you know, a truly privacy by design health care workflow. So we partnered with a few different folks, and Dr. Brad Malin, who is in your — actually, no, no, you were in Nashville. You said last week. I know we were based in Atlanta, but so Dr. Brad Malin, who is a professor at Vanderbilt, you know, he’s one of the foremost experts in HIPAA, and he partners and consults with a lot of technology companies. And so we talked to him from kind of the beginning, and said, like, Hey, listen, we want to build the best system for de identifying this data, so that when we are working with clients, you know, they’re really clear eyed about, you know, the protocols that we’ve gone through to ensure that we are leveraging their data in a HIPAA compliant fashion. And so he did a review of our technology, consulted with us on the build out, and at the end, you know, he was able to put his stamp of approval and his certificate. And his certification on our technology. So now, whenever I work with you know, folks, and you know, it’s a new client, you know, or a new prospect, I should say, you know, and they ask about our HIPAA program, you know, I say, hey, I can send you Dr. Malin report and you can read it. And you know, I’ve never had any blockers once folks kind of look at that report. So again, you know, it’s, you know who, it’s who people trust, right? And it’s the authority that they bring to the partnership and the credibility on and I think that establishing early on about the thoughtfulness that you’ve gone through in order to make sure that you’re protecting the data. I’ll also just say kind of zooming a little bit wider than just live rams healthcare practice is that live rams business practice overall is minimize the amount of client data that we’re touching and eliminate it from our systems once we’ve accomplished the task of transforming their data from kind of, you know, raw PII phi into a de identified token or ramp ID that’s going to be leveraged as the currency of identity to connecting data sets together. So once we’ve gone that transformation, like, once you take Jason Brenner and transform that to ramp, ID, 12345, like, we delete all of the PII phi from our systems. We don’t retain any of that. And in general, as I’m sure you guys have talked to others about this, it’s like minimizing the amount of data you collect and the amount. Of data that you retain is just a really, really good business practice, and it’s also part of, like, what just establishes trust between brands, right? Like, I’m not doing anything weird with your data, right? You know, I’m only doing what I’m being contracted and asked to do with it.

Jodi Daniels 20:14

Jason, you mentioned tokenization earlier, and I think some people might not be familiar with that concept. Could you give a quick explainer on what? What is tokenization?

Jason Brenner 20:27

Yeah, so first off, I will say, like I am not a cryptographer, and so there’s a lot smarter people that you could ask, you know, for a definition of tokenization. But essentially, what companies that are creating tokens, or, you know, de identifying PHI data is they are removing the any identifiable aspect of a patient, so first name, last name and address, and they are taking that information though to create a durable, interoperable ID that can represent that individual without ever sharing any of that underlying PHI data. And so when you kind of remove those kind of personal identifiable health information. And to create that token, it’s a one way encryption. It’s a one way hashing, so that you know, you can’t ever reverse engineer once you’ve created that token back to you know that individual. It’s the same process that we use when we create a ramp ID. I won’t go into the nuances about the difference between a token versus a synonymous ID, but the idea is really similar in the sense of it’s a one way removal of, you know, phi, data, encrypting of that data so that you so that you can’t ever get back to, you know, the an individual’s health records.

Jodi Daniels 22:08

I think that was a really good explanation. Thank you. Okay, yeah, I was looking for that level because so many people listening might have heard of that, but not really understood what it was. I appreciate you explaining.

Justin Daniels 22:20

Jodi, would you like to give us a good example of what the definition of hashing would be?

Jodi Daniels 22:23

No, I’m gonna let you do that.

Justin Daniels 22:27

So, Jason, when I have to explain hashing, the best way I do it is, I said, think of a zip code. It’s a finite, specific amount of numbers that can represent something else. Because that’s really what hashing is, is taking something large, condensing it into a very finite list. And so I’ve always found the zip code is a great way to explain what a hash is, because, well, you had the other one later that I loved, which is, you don’t go to the bar and ask for a phone number. Yeah, you don’t.

Jason Brenner 22:57

So that’s right.

Jodi Daniels 22:59

Anyway, go into a conference and a person’s almost entire presentation was relating marketing with dating.

Jason Brenner 23:08

Got it. The other, you know, but something that I will point out, and especially in regards to marketing, most marketers, most anybody you know, you know, if you have, you know, cryptography solution one and cryptography solution two, they’re not qualified to say like, well, which one’s better than the other, which one’s more privacy secure. It’s like you are, to a certain extent, relying on expertise of others in your organization, or somebody that you trust or outside counsel to say, like, yep, these guys are credible in their technology. Right, to me, the most important thing, once people do that kind of baseline, yep, check this is credible, this is defensible, how they’re going out this process is, how can I use this data? What do I want to use this data for and as the company that I’m working with kind of have, is there a network that they are tapped into so that I can leverage my data in the most strategically important, effective, you know, frictionless way possible, right? And I think the great companies out there in the kind of data connectivity, data collaboration space are those that have those networks built out already. There’s a lot of folks that are out there that say, like, yeah, we do data collaboration. And it’s like, great. Like, who’s in your network? And it’s like, you know, well, you know, it’s like, Who do you want to work with? And it becomes very clear that they don’t have a network, right? They have a, maybe a cryptographic solution. They can tokenize data. But then it’s like, great. What am I going to do with that data is just going to sit there on the and, you know, in my cloud infrastructure, like, when? What if I want to send data to NBCU? For an advertising campaign, what if I want to send that data out to, you know, a measurement analytics company like symphony, you know, or purple lab to measure script lift like, you know, do you have the pipe set up in order to do that? And I think that’s a, just a really important business question to ask is like, what does that collaboration ecosystem look like? Because ultimately, I think that’s what brands are buying into when they think about data collaboration, they should be thinking about it, not like, hey, what’s the technology that you’re using to encrypt my data?

Justin Daniels 25:33

Well, Jason, bring up an interesting point, and I guess I want to ask you, is in the kinds of work that you do, do these questions come up sooner, because I still have plenty of deals where nobody’s talking about privacy or security until I get the contract and we start asking these questions, and all I’ve done is I need to ask the questions, but I’ve slowed down the sales process because the sales team and the others weren’t asking these questions on the front end. And, you know, qualifying the company from these perspectives prior to getting to the contract, you know, the contracts at the end, and everyone’s exhausted and just wants to get that part done.

Jason Brenner 26:10

Yeah, so I sympathize, right? You know? And that’s kind of what I was saying at the beginning. It’s like, it’s always best to kind of bring lawyers and privacy folks, and early, it’s really interesting to me, there some folks kind of, like, they treat their lawyers or their privacy team like, you know, it’s like the Wizard of Oz, like, no, no, you cannot possibly see the Wizard yet, you know, like, we’re not, we’re it’s too soon. It’s too soon. And I’m always like, you know, it would be really, really good, you know, if we can get the wizard to come out from beneath, you know, the curtain, you know, earlier on, because then it’s just like, we’re going to hash this out, no pun intended, and kind of figure out like, well, can we do these things, or can we not do these things, right? You know, because at some point, like, everyone else is going to be exhausted, but like, You got fresh legs, right? Like you haven’t seen this, you haven’t been part of this deal, so you got all the energy going, and you’re like, and I imagine maybe have a little bit of a chip on your shoulder, if your team is just trying to, like, you know, shove something through at the zero hour and say, come on, they’re giving us a 10% discount, but we have to sign by five o’clock. Just do it, you know. And so again, I think that it is better always, you know, just good manners like, you know, let’s bring in all the stakeholders in this decision.

Justin Daniels 27:29

So well, Jason, I think based on what you said for the rest of the podcast, my co-host is going to be known as Elphaba.

Jodi Daniels 27:38

I’m loving that analogy. I wouldn’t have some fun with it, actually. So with all this in mind, we always ask every guest, what is your favorite personal privacy tip that you might share with someone when you are out at a party,

Jason Brenner 27:53

Uh, don’t make your password 1234, or don’t have your password password, right? But, you know, it in all, in all honesty, it’s like, I, you know, we kind of been touching upon this, but like, you know, okay, if you’re being asked to share, kind of, like, your personal information, you know what value we’re going to get out of it, right? Like, what, what’s, what’s the value exchange? You know, there’s a lot of convenience, you know, that’s out there when you kind of store your personal information, you know, in a digital wallet, you know, and sort of other or an SSO system, but it’s always like, well, what value are you getting at this? Like, you know, when, when Jodi were asked, you know, for your birthday, it’s like, you were like, yeah, like, you know, I may never be in this coffee shop again. So, like, it’s not very valuable for me to give, you know, this barista, my birthday. So that’s always the first thing. And then the second thing I tell people is, like, you know, just, you know, ask some experts, right? You know, there, there’s a lot of resources that are out there that, you know, some for free, some that not for free, but there’s, there’s a lot of expertise out there in terms of, you know, how you know an individual can think about like, you know, how do I protect my data? You know? And if it’s my mom that’s asking me, I just tell her, just give me your phone and I’ll do everything.

Jodi Daniels 29:13

That’s funny. You don’t find that funny. I’m smiling. You sit with your mom’s phone. Actually, she doesn’t ask you.

Justin Daniels 29:21

No, I delegated that too. So Jason, my mom does the same thing, yeah, but I have been very good at delegating that task to my co-host.

Jodi Daniels 29:30

She thinks I’m more patient.

Jason Brenner 29:33

Well, right?

Justin Daniels 29:34

See, I learned a great lesson from a Law School professor who said I was so bad at doing the diaper them after a while. Yeah, see just turning red. Check into the YouTube version of this one. So, Jason, when you’re not doing your privacy thing, what do you like to do for fun? Well,

Jason Brenner 29:57

I like to do it for them. So, uh. Beyond hanging out with my kids, which I absolutely do love, I have two children, 14 and 11, and they’re tons of fun to hang out with. We just took a great trip down to St Thomas together. It was wonderful having the week just to kind of you know, splash around and have some good times with them. I also love playing guitar. I’ve been playing music since I was four to five, used to playing a lot of bands, not as much anymore, since becoming a dad, but still love to play. And I also became a runner, kind of late in life. It was about six or seven years ago, right before I joined LiveRamp, I had one of those doctor’s appointments, and not to reveal too much, uh, PHI, but they were like, wow. Like, you are really, really not going to live that long. You should basically, like, it was a George Costanza thing that was like, You should do the opposite of every single thing that you’re doing for your health. And I was like, Okay, you’re like, you’re really being serious. And doctor was like, yep, you really need to do a lot of things differently, and exercise is one of them. So I got into running, and I’ve now run five marathons. I just ran my first ultra marathon in December, and so I like to run a lot.

Jodi Daniels 31:13

That’s amazing. Well, Jason, thank you so much for sharing and breaking down what some think is the mystery of LiveRamp and this data collaboration opportunity, and if people would like to connect with you or learn more, where could they go?

Jason Brenner 31:26

So you can find me on LinkedIn. It’s probably the easiest. So you know Jason Brenner. I don’t use a pseudonym or anything like that, so very easy to find, and you can always email me as well. You know, Jason.Brenner@LiveRamp.com.

Jodi Daniels 31:42

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. We really appreciate you coming on the show today.

Jason Brenner 31:47

Truly a pleasure.

Outro 31:53

Thanks for listening to the She Said Privacy/He Said Security Podcast. If you haven’t already, be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes and check us out on LinkedIn. See you next time.