Helping Seniors Avoid Digital Scams, One Click at a Time

Intro 0:00

Welcome to the She Said Privacy/He Said Security. Podcast, like any good marriage, we will debate, evaluate, and sometimes quarrel about how privacy and security impact business in the 21st Century.

Jodi Daniels 0:15

Hi. Jodi Daniels, here, I’m the founder and CEO of Red Clover Advisors, a certified women’s privacy consultancy. I’m a privacy consultant and certified information privacy professional providing practical privacy advice to overwhelmed companies. Hi,

Justin Daniels 0:35

I’m Justin Daniels, I am a shareholder and corporate M and A and tech transaction lawyer at the law firm Baker Donelson, advising companies in the deployment and scaling of technology. Since data is critical to every transaction, I help clients make informed business decisions while managing data privacy and cybersecurity risk. And when needed, I lead the legal cyber data breach response

Jodi Daniels 0:55

brigade. And this episode is brought to you by Red Clover Advisors, we help companies to comply with data privacy laws and establish customer trust so that they can grow and nurture integrity. We work with companies in a variety of fields, including technology, e-commerce, professional services, and digital media. In short, we use data privacy to transform the way companies do business. Together. We’re creating a future where there’s greater trust between companies and consumers to learn more and to check out our best-selling book, Data Reimagined: Building Trust, One Byte at a Time. Visit redcloveradvisors.com, well, hello. I shared in our little pre-show over here that I am melting in my errand running in 95 billion degree heat to look so summery today. That is because it’s so hot. And then I realized, especially when you’re running errands around town, the cars nowadays kind of idle or turn the air conditioning off to be more energy efficient when you’re idling. And so every red light, which is about every four feet, you have no air conditioning, which makes it hotter. This is a silly system.

Justin Daniels 2:00

Okay, well, maybe you should move to Colorado.

Jodi Daniels 2:04

It’s hot there too. I never heard it. Snake season there. So no, that doesn’t work.

Justin Daniels 2:11

Okay.

Jodi Daniels 2:13

Now, stay indoors. No. Snake. Off you go.

Justin Daniels 2:18

We have show alumnus

Jodi Daniels 2:22

with us today. Oh, fancy word. Look at

Justin Daniels 2:24

that. I know. So today, we have Lexi Lutz with us today, who, in her day job, is senior corporate counsel of Nordstrom Inc. But today, we’re going to talk to her about a passion project that she has that I care enough about that I’m actually involved in, which is that she is the founder of Opt-Inspire. So Opt-Inspire is a nonprofit dedicated to helping seniors and youth build digital confidence and avoid online scams by day. Lexi serves as Senior Corporate Counsel at Nordstrom, advising on privacy, cybersecurity, and AI across the retail and technology landscape. Lexi, welcome back to the show.

Lexi Lutz 3:09

So thrilled to be back. Thank you for inviting me on. Uh, last time I was on you both sparked something in me that, um, I’m really excited to share more. I think it was exactly a year ago, almost that I was on so excited to share everything that’s happened with Opt-Inspire since our last conversation,

Jodi Daniels 3:32

yes, and that came from the what do you like to do in your free time? So it’s one of the fun reasons we enjoy asking every guest that same question, because we learn all kinds of amazing things. So before we dive into that, though, some people listening might have to go back and go find that prior episode. Let’s just catch them up to speed. Tell us a little bit about your career journey to date.

Lexi Lutz 3:53

Yes. So as Justin noted, I am Senior Corporate Counsel at Nordstrom, where I focus on privacy, cybersecurity and AI. So in a nutshell, I help to ensure that any data we handle at Nordstrom, whether it’s personal, confidential, internal or going through a vendor, is protected and compliant with both legal standards and our own internal standards. And my path to my current position, briefly, is basically ever since law school, I knew that I wanted to be in-house. I wanted to be working as a cohesive team, on a cohesive team, but in legal across various departments. And so I knew early on that I wanted to be in-house. I did work at a law firm for a year focusing mostly on IP and some civil business litigation. And then when the opportunity presented itself to move in-house, about a year after I was working in-house full fully as an employment counsel for a food service company, and then transitioned to be more of a generalist at a national hotel chain, and that’s where I found. Around privacy and discovered my love for it, and which is what led me to my current role, 100% focusing on privacy and cybersecurity and AI at Nordstrom.

Jodi Daniels 5:13

Well as the Nordstrom shopper, I thank you for all of the great work that you are doing, Nordstrom, and Nordstrom Rack might be some favorite places of mine. Thank

Lexi Lutz 5:22

you. Hope you’re going to shop the Anniversary Sale. Oh, I’ll

Jodi Daniels 5:26

have to make a note of that coming up, coming up,

Lexi Lutz 5:31

Kind of getting overshadowed by prime but

Justin Daniels 5:34

Lexi, you two need to have a sidecar discussion

Jodi Daniels 5:38

During your free time. There we go. Next conversation

Justin Daniels 5:43

as much as I would enjoy listening to regal tales of your Nordstrom purchases. Let’s talk a little bit about what is Opt-Inspire and your vision behind it.

Lexi Lutz 5:53

absolutely so what we’re here to talk about today, Opt-Inspire honestly was born out of a personal heartbreak my grandmother. She’s the only grandparent that I ever knew. She actually was living in Hendersonville, North Carolina, which is, I believe, where you’re about to send your kids off to camp, and which actually was what brought my family and I to Charlotte. And when they eventually moved her into a senior living home in Charlotte. We had the fortunate opportunity to go visit her weekly, and at that point, she was life at the party. My dad would always drop off non alcoholic wine at the bar, and she would have her daily happy hour and an extremely social individual, sharp, smart, really, truly, just the person who you would go to for anything, at least when I was a child, what what became tough was whenever her mental state started declining and she would get calls From people, probably calls that she had received before that were obviously scammers. And I, on our weekly visits, I would say, Come on, grandma, like you’re smarter than that. You know that that’s not a legitimate person. And she would still say, Yes, but I got this call, I don’t know, and that was almost one of the first indicators of her dementia, and that we knew she was deteriorating, and then, of course, I would hear stories from other individuals within her living facility who were targeted and then sometimes even victimized by these scammers. Thankfully, she never was in the position where she was seriously victimized by any of this, but most of that also was because she wasn’t very digitally active. When she stopped having to go to the happy hours because she couldn’t really walk as much, and her dementia was really setting in, and she just really wasn’t doing much, and my family and I didn’t really know what to do. And looking back at that, one thing that I wish I had worked harder at doing was getting her, at least very basically digitally educated, so she could keep in touch with us, even though we visited her weekly keep in touch with us during the week in a sense that, you know, it wouldn’t. We wouldn’t have to go visit her in person, but we could communicate with her via cell phone or text message, and unfortunately, never did that. So, you know, I just realized that after her death, her cognitive decline was, I attribute part of it to the fact that she, towards the end of the days, wasn’t extremely connected to people. She had people within the senior living facility, but that was a bit of a different relationship. So that guilt, if you can call it, that turned into fuel, and that fuel became the nonprofit Opt-Inspire. So we’re about a year and a half out from the first kind of volunteer-led session. And but this year is actually the first year that we are officially registered as a 501 c3 nonprofit. And thank you Justin for agreeing to be on the board. But essentially, we are a community-powered, volunteer-powered educational organization that exists to fight scams and also just close the digital literacy generational gap that exists. It’s not necessarily just, oh, scams are scary. You should be scared of anyone who calls or texts or emails you. It’s also very basic education, like, what do you do when a cookie banner pops up? They don’t really know what that is. Or, how can you tell if a website is secure in order to input any of your personal information, financial information, and some people have asked me, my grandmother passed. Passed away in 2014 but some people have asked me, so why are you doing this now? Well, part of it is the fact that I am extremely focused. 100% of my practice now on privacy and security. And also relevant is this year actually marks 80 years since world war two ended, and many of the people who helped shape the world we live in now are in their 80s, and so they are moving into community, or, I’m sorry, senior living communities. And so we’re about to witness kind of a tidal wave of baby boomers transitioning into these communities. And we see this as an opportunity to have a captive audience to launch into these communities, you know, not breaking into people’s homes, but having like partnerships with these facilities. We actually have a national partnership in the works with a organization that has 160 organization that has 160 plus communities to train both their residents as well as their staff, and so really excited for that. And essentially every study and statistic out there shows that seniors are by far the most vulnerable when it comes to fraud, whether it’s online or really any other type of fraud, and they’re, they’re just, they just didn’t grow up in this era. They also typically have kind of a nest egg of finances that they have saved up their entire lives, you know, which is great, but unfortunately, if that gets taken away from them unexpectedly, then they don’t really have the resources or time, or frankly, job at that point to recoup that, and so that’s especially devastating for them. And then I don’t want to warn people, but I want to throw out some statistics because they are a bit staggering. The internet crime and Complaint Center, they every year they release an elder Fraud Report, and the most recent report was in 2024 reported for 2024 and it said that over 147,000 victims, ages 60 and older, were reported as victims, and that about $4.9 billion of losses just from 2024 alone. And that was an increase year over year of 43% from 2023 and just to show you how shocking that number is for context, the year over year increase from 2022 to 2023 was only 11% so the 43% increase is extremely alarming, and the average dollar amount lost per victim is $83,000 and there were over 7500 victims with more than $100,000 that was lost. So if these numbers don’t shake you, just imagine that being your grandparent, your parent or your neighbor, and also the fact that this is preventable.

Jodi Daniels 13:18

And what scares me is that AI will make it even harder. And between deep fakes and voice and video and so many Oh, I see I’ve, I’ve skipped Justin is so excited that I’m, I’m talking about something, but I it’s, it’s, it doesn’t scares me. And I mean, I feel like I’m constantly educating my parents. Don’t forget this. Don’t forget that. Don’t forget this. What about even just today, I personally received an email, and I didn’t trust it, and it turns out to be 100% real, but I went around and I reached a different way out to the person says, The Privacy professional. I’m not sure this was real. Here’s all the things wrong. Those are, those are the really important pieces. So I’m going to save the deep fake conversation for Justin, because it would not be a podcast if you didn’t get to talk about deep fakes. So I want, I want to hear Lexi. Are there any stories, any kind of common types of scams that you are seeing nowadays. I feel like we’ve all heard about the toll one. So I kept telling my parents, who have toll booths, it’s not real, don’t do the toll booth one. But there’s probably some others. So if you can share, that’d be great.

Lexi Lutz 14:36

Yes, yeah. So I mean the grandparent one, but the grandparent one is an extremely common example of that, and we can get more into the deep fakes and that. But I actually had a friend tell me a couple weekends ago that her grandfather received a call from who he thought was unmistakably her and saying that she was in jail. She needed bail money, and she was drawn. Duncan hit a pregnant woman driving and this is a friend of mine who is extremely privacy cautious. She doesn’t really have social media. She doesn’t have her Alexa turned on even. And she is extremely she was definitely shaken by when her grandfather told her this. And I mean, luckily, he hung up and called her parents, even though, you know the the voice clone told him not to, but, but, yeah, it’s, and it’s, it’s those situations where the fact that you care about this person and love this person so much is actually held against you. And I think that’s almost the most evil part about it is they, the scammers, are using the love and concern that these older people have for their children and grandchildren and completely using it against them. Because most reasonable people, when they receive a call like that, do want to help their grandchild get out of jail. I actually was giving a presentation in Charlotte a few months ago, and one lady said that, and part of our presentations, we actually we love to make they’re in person, if it’s two residents, because we found that that is much more effective giving them an online Zoom presentation. Typically they lose interest after a few minutes, especially in this generation. But one of the women said, you know, she got a call. She knew it was a scammer. Someone said Your grandson is in jail. And she kind of joked and said, again, Danny, twice in a one week. And then the scammer kind of froze and then hung up. So it’s

Jodi Daniels 16:40

fun. Great response. You should add that,

Lexi Lutz 16:43

yes, I love the sassy responses. So, so yeah, and just, you know, and so we kind of walk through their stories as well. So that’s always fun. And then it also, it makes it so that it’s an ongoing conversation and not thus something that people are ashamed to talk about if they respond to a text or click on a link, it’s one of those things we want to normalize talking about this, because it really is preventable, but it’s only preventable if it’s a community activity where people are raising awareness of, hey, I got this email, I got This phone call, I got this text message. Another example is tech support scams. So these ones, I think, are the first or second most common for older adults, but it’s basically where, like a pop up or a fake call or email comes in to the older adults computer and it says, you know, either your computer has been hacked, please, please contact us to fix the issue, or you have a virus. And so they offer to help fix it, and they say, Yeah, I just need to take control of your screen, or I just need the password to your iCloud. And you know, of course, instead, they install spyware or demand some type of payment in order to get control back, and or they just lose a bunch of data. And so many victims have reported losing 1000s of dollars and personal data in just a single phone call. And so what I advise them for those kind of calls are, you know, I know, for me personally, if I want to try to get a hold of Apple or Microsoft, and I need technical I have a technical issue. It’s going to take probably hours for me to get a human on the phone. So no one’s going to be reaching out to you if you really need help with your computer or your phone or tablet. It’s never it’s usually going to be you initiating it. And so what I advise is to just never give out any information unless you were the one who initiated the conversation. And then a very common one these days, which I’m sure you all heard about, is the government impersonation scams. So we have scammers posing as IRS agent, Social Security, personnel, law enforcement, FBI, saying, you know, there’s a warrant out for your arrest, or your your benefits are frozen, or there’s some there’s some type of legal order out for money for you, and if you don’t pay it, you’re going to get arrested. And so these really rely on the kind of urgency and the fear, even if they didn’t do anything wrong, and they know they didn’t do anything wrong, it’s kind of like when a police officer is driving behind you and you know you’re going the speed limit. But of course, you check and you kind of get nervous because you don’t know maybe you did do something wrong. And then they’re a very common one, also right now, with the last one I’ll talk about for the time being, is the romance scams. These ones have become extremely popular. There was one a couple of months ago in the news where a woman in France was conned out of I think it was around 830,000 euros. Emails by scammers use fake images. I don’t think they were even AI images, like they weren’t even that great, um, but images and messages from someone pretending to be Brad Pitt. So this woman literally thought she was in a relationship with Brad Pitt for 18 months, and paid that amount of money over 18 months, including kind of fabricated medical needs and so unfortunately, this one is targeting, you know, there are plenty of older adults who are just living by themselves, even if they might be in one of these living communities, they just generally don’t have much family, or if they do have family. I don’t see them very often, not many friends. Maybe their significant other has passed away. And so unfortunately, they’re even more vulnerable when they’re kind of in those lonely, socially isolated positions. And then, actually, sorry, I thought that was going to be the last one, but I want to give an honorable mention. I don’t think this one is going to be as prevalent right now, but I foresee it becoming prevalent soon, just because with the midterm elections coming up next year, but kind of fake political calls and texts because, I mean, we get legitimate, you know, I’m sure you guys in Atlanta, when I was in North Carolina, I got lots of political calls and texts being kind of a purple state, and so you know, no matter what side of the aisle you’re on, you’re going to get these text messages and phone calls. And a lot of these older adults actually grew up probably answering a phone call or calling in to do their donations to their political party or their political candidate. And so I foresee that this is going to be even more of an issue in the midterm elections and in the, you know, general elections in a few more years after that. And so what I would just caution them is to say, you know, even if you typically donate by phone or by text, which I don’t think they probably would have done that traditionally, but if you typically donate by phone, I would just tell them to, you know, try to either mail on a check or go to the legitimate website of the party or candidate that you want to support if that’s how you want to contribute. But I would not recommend them definitely not answering a phone call or a text message or clicking on a link to contribute in that way.

Justin Daniels 22:27

Can I add one, and I’m gonna call this a dishonorable mention? Okay? I don’t

Jodi Daniels 22:35

think any of the ones that Lexi just shared were exactly

Justin Daniels 22:38

Good, no, but I’m thinking I’m going to make my category the dishonorable mention. Okay, the one I would add is I’m still amazed, even though it’s newer, but the amount of pig butchering with cryptocurrency using the same ideas of being lonely and whatnot. But people will then set up these accounts. They’ll fund them, give them the crypto, and that’s it. And I had one. It was, I had one this year. Was over 1,000,005 and there was nothing I could do, even after I told them, Don’t do this. Like, well, I need to get the other money back. And they went into it. So anyway, so, Lexi is just changing gears, just a little bit is, and I see this a lot, is, what can people with older parents or grandparents do to educate them about online scams? Because anytime I try to tell my mom anything, or she tries to tell me anything, it’s like you don’t listen by the ones who are closest to you. So what can you do to educate better? I mean, I guess that’s really what Opt-Inspire. Really can bridge that gap? Yes,

Lexi Lutz 23:53

absolutely. Great question. So completely agree. A lot of the hesitation I have heard from individuals who want to help their loved ones, especially people in their family. They’re saying, you know, grandpa’s not going to change his ways. My dad’s not going to change his ways. My mom is not going to listen to me. She’s too stubborn, but, but yeah, that’s exactly why we exist, to at least help start the conversation right. And there are ways that you can also, you can make it fun. Back to the example that I gave of that woman saying, Oh, my, my grandson’s in jail again. Like telling stories like that, and, you know, so I think, and we actually, for optinspire.org, we have a, what we call a make it personal toolkit, and that includes some conversation starters, and so you can download it, and you can curate it to whatever your needs are for the individual that you are going to talk with. And it has kind of visual representations in there so that they don’t kind of feel like you’re talking at them. But it also has questions. You can ask, and, like I said, examples, so you can go to our website and download that. If you go to optinspire.org, Click on volunteer and make it personal. And so that has scripts, it has screenshots, walkthroughs, and, you know, we constantly are updating our material. And I do think something that is unique about Opt-Inspire versus I’m so happy that there are other organizations out there doing the same work, but we are. We have privacy, security, legal minds behind all of the content that we are curating, and we are making it specific to the groups that we are serving, and constantly updating it from that and so I’ve gotten, actually, really good feedback on the make it personal toolkit from the ones that we have distributed so far. Had a couple of friends who went home for Father’s Day and had conversations with their dads and said, you know, at first he wasn’t sure why I was pulling out my laptop and showing him some stuff. But by the end of it, they actually now have, like, weekly check-ins. And so you know that could be something that you could set up after, after you do the initial conversation, just to say, hey, what kind of sketchy email or text message did you get this week? Like, let’s let’s make fun of it. Like, let’s just talk about it, like I said earlier. Let’s normalize talking about this so that even if something does happen, they don’t feel ashamed. Because that’s the top reason why many of these scams aren’t ever reported, because these older adults actually, really anyone, we’re all human, feel ashamed that they fell for something so but yeah, I think the most important thing is just to start the conversation, even that just even if that just means going on the website, downloading it, taking a look at it, and if you hate it, you don’t have to use it. And if you like it, or you only like part of it, then you know, that’s why we’re here.

Justin Daniels 27:03

So my co host was pointing at me, since we’re back to a topic that she said I should cover, which is just in the last two days, that story about the deep fake of Marco Rubio’s making the rounds. And you know, you and I both do a good bit of work, AI Jodi as well. Deep fakes, to me, are the number one concern that I have of the negative consequences of AI, as we talk today, and now they’re so cheap to do, they’re very easy. So then how? How do we then help our parents or grandparents, who are already behind the eight ball, navigate this now, where somebody can call up and sound just like your mom, your you know your your grandson? What do we do?

Lexi Lutz 27:59

Yes, it’s terrifying. We have cheap voice cloning deep fakes, live deep fakes, where I could be on Zoom right now, and you’re not sure if I’m real or if I’m even myself, or an AI avatar of myself. I know in some of Justin’s presentations, one that we did together, he had his TED Talk Ave AI avatar that was extremely believable. So, yeah, it’s scary. And usually what I advise to the residents of the senior living communities, and then also have individuals loved ones advise them of is to make a plan to have some type of of of word that you say, whether that is just, you know, what’s the, what’s the password, What’s the magic word that you can say, in order to know that I’m actually in trouble, I do need help. Maybe it’s the opposite of a safe word, but, but yeah. And so I advise that also, if you just ask questions, that typically tends to run the scammers off. Unfortunately, by the time they have a deep fake of your voice and your image and video of you, it’s likely that they have a lot more other information about you, and so you do have to be very particular about the questions that you are asking, if it’s information that could potentially be available on social media, like, What city do you live in, or What school did you go to? You know, try to make it more personal, like, what is your nickname for your dog when she’s being a bad girl, or what is, you know, what is your favorite comfort food to eat when it’s too hot outside in Atlanta and so kind of just going into more detail with that, of course. There’s always the option to just hang up and call back, that usually is a more efficient option and typically effective, you know, God forbid someone actually has their phone and is being a deep fake of them. I think that would potentially be, you know, that wouldn’t be a way around it, because if you call back, then it would just be that person with the deep fake on their phone number. But you know, you hope that that’s not the case, because if that’s the case, then that’s a much more serious issue

Jodi Daniels 30:32

for everyone listening. What would you advise? What’s maybe one tip that they could take today or in the next week or so to protect their loved ones from online scams. Yes, thank you for specifying what we were talking about this whole time. Yes,

Justin Daniels 30:55

That’s passive-aggressive.

Jodi Daniels 30:58

You might have, might might have, yes, yes. I’m going to clarify. So Lexi, what is the best tip that you could offer our audience? We should not do these in the afternoon to protect their loved ones from online scams and deep fakes, and all these horrible situations.

Lexi Lutz 31:20

Yes. So I think outside of having that make it personal toolkit and downloading it, if there’s just one thing that you want to after listening to this podcast, sit down with your parent, grandparent, neighbor, and you know, really help them with protecting themselves, something super practical is sit down with them and find out if their two factor authentication is turned on, on their on their email, on their bank accounts. Maybe don’t do that with your neighbor. Maybe don’t ask your neighbor like, hey, let’s sign on to your bank account, maybe just your family for that one. But that’s that’s one simple thing that you can do is just to say, because I do believe that two factor authentication could prevent a lot of what is going on, with respect to even if they are a target or if they are a victim and their information does get out, at least two factor authentication could potentially prevent the bad actor from actually being able to take funds from their bank account, which, you know, once the funds are out of the account, then it’s, you know, it’s not impossible to recoup them, but in a lot of cases, it’s, it’s extremely difficult and time consuming, and resource consuming in order to do that. So I think just even turning on two-factor authentication on their bank account, on their email that could be something that you can literally do in just a few minutes. If you don’t know how to do it, download the Make It Personal toolkit, not to give it another plug, but very simple, and also just make a weekly habit of saying, hey, what ridiculous texts have you gotten this week? Let’s talk about it. Let’s laugh about

Jodi Daniels 33:09

I think Talking is so important. I know I continue to try and say at work to my team and also to my family, a reminder no one’s going to call the bank doesn’t send you messages saying, you know, click this button and then go change anything if you’re if you ever get something like that, you skip that, go directly to the site, just what we might be used to. Because we’re in this space all day long. I feel like everyone listening has to try and remind ourselves to step out, because the rest of everyone who isn’t in privacy and security and AI isn’t doing this all day long, and they’re not paying attention to all of those risks. So the conversation is really, really important.

Lexi Lutz 33:58

Agreed, it’s really easy to forget, because we’re talking about it all day long. And if we talk to them about it, that’s probably point 1% of the conversations they have all day. So I think if you make a habit out of it as part of, you know, family check in, or something like that, then you know, it could, it can benefit them more than you know, even if it’s just, you know, a tiny percentage of our day that we might not even remember.

Justin Daniels 34:24

Indeed, so for our viewers who did haven’t watched the last episode, what do you like to do for fun in your free time? Maybe it’s another idea that you’re going to start a nonprofit around.

Lexi Lutz 34:42

Well, yes, no, I just, I can’t tell y’all how grateful I am for being so encouraging last time when I shared with you that I was just kind of wandering into senior living homes and doing this, I also this question just always gives me a little bit of ex. Central anxiety, because a lot of what I do in my free time, a lot of people don’t consider as like fun or hobbies. So thank you for encouraging me and saying, you know, I think Jodi was the one who said, Imagine if every privacy professional just spent one hour of their lives doing this. How many? How many potential people we could save, or one privacy professionally per year. But anyway, back to the question, sorry, Justin, I’m just a little bit sentimental, because y’all are a huge part of the reason why I continue to pursue this. But so last time I mentioned, my hobbies were pretty basic, playing tennis, playing golf, reading and writing. Since then, I have moved from Charlotte, North Carolina. I am now in Boston, Massachusetts, and I have taken up sailing, which has been fun. I took a class. I’m certified, so that has been an extremely unique experience. Really enjoy it. It is very, I wouldn’t say hard, but it’s, it was like learning a new language, all the sailing jargon and but it’s, it’s very freeing. It’s great to be on the water. And in Boston, we have a little bit shorter of a window for it being warm, so everyone definitely appreciates that. And then, you know, now that I’m up here just traveling local, exploring the Northeast and the charming, cute little towns on the coast

Jodi Daniels 36:37

here, see Justin water can be fun and cute charming towns. You see, I grew up in Connecticut, and we have this conversation a lot about New England and all of the traveling that we could do around there. And Justin wants to take all of our trips to mountain towns, and I’m trying to remind him, but no, see, water is fun. What water is fun? Okay, there you go. Well, Lexi, we’re, we’re so grateful that you came today, and I would like to put a kind of call to action to everyone listening. And I’m, I’m grateful you remembered that. Imagine if just each privacy professional could spend an hour in the impact that it could have. And so I’m going to kind of put a charge out there to everyone listening and to help have them spread the word. Imagine if you were to, if everyone was to download that and share it with two people that they care about, and if they could spend even an hour educating somebody that will have a domino effect. Maybe you like it so much you’ll spend more than an hour. The people who know something about this are those who are going to really help protect and you don’t want to be the call that you get where one of your loved ones has been impacted. So I hope everyone listening will take Lexi up on her content and the great work that she’s doing.

Lexi Lutz 38:00

Thank you. And if you also, if you want to present, we have an entire database of volunteers, because we have, like I said, National Partnerships coming up. And we are also seeking North Carolina. If you’re in North Carolina, the North Carolina Bar Association will give you pro bono credits for this, which is exciting. And we are working with other states to do the same thing, to assess, incentivize attorneys to do so you don’t have to be a privacy security expert. I’m assuming, if you’re listening to this, you either are or are interested in being one. So that’s even better. You probably need less training and but yeah, it’s open. Volunteering is open from a presentation level to a behind the scenes level, all the way to just making it personal for yourself, your loved ones, those closest to you, if you don’t feel like going up in front of people, but I can be found@optinspire.org or you can email me directly at connect@optinspire.org, and would love to have conversations. Or if you know of any community centers, senior centers, churches, libraries, where we can get the word around, it’s completely volunteer-run and lead, and so there wouldn’t be any charges really or catches, just really trying to get the word out

Jodi Daniels 39:21

there. Amazing. Thank you, Lexi. Justin, any last

Justin Daniels 39:25

thoughts, I couldn’t set the call to action better than you. Oh, Lexi, I think I think Jodi, I think Jodi is very appreciative that you remembered what she said.

Jodi Daniels 39:38

I am, I am. It’s all about trying to make a difference. So thank you so very much, and we look forward to continuing to see the great success and hoping to have less scams.

Lexi Lutz 39:51

Thank you for having me back. It was great catching up with y’all.

Outro 39:58

Thanks for listening to the She Said Privacy/He Said Security. Podcast, if you haven’t already, be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes and check us out on LinkedIn. See you next time