Building Privacy Programs for Global Businesses

Intro  0:01  

Welcome to the She Said Privacy/He Said Security Podcast. Like any good marriage we will debate, evaluate, and sometimes quarrel about how privacy and security impact business in the 21st century.

Jodi Daniels  0:21  

Hi, Jodi Daniels here. I’m the founder and CEO of Red Clover Advisors, a certified women’s privacy consultancy. I’m a privacy consultant and Certified Information Privacy professional providing practical privacy advice to overwhelmed companies.

Justin Daniels  0:35  

Hi, I’m Justin Daniels. I am a shareholder and corporate M&A and tech transaction lawyer at the law firm Baker Donelson, advising companies in the deployment and scaling of technology. Since data is critical to every transaction, I help clients make informed business decisions while managing data privacy and cybersecurity risk. And when needed, I lead the legal cyber data breach response brigade.

Jodi Daniels  0:57  

And this episode is brought to you by Red Clover Advisors. We help companies to comply with data privacy laws and establish customer trust so that they can grow and nurture integrity. We work with companies in a variety of fields, including technology, ecommerce, professional services, and digital media. In short, we use data privacy to transform the way companies do business together, we’re creating a future where there’s greater trust between companies and consumers. To learn more and to check out our best selling book Data Reimagined: Building Trust One Byte at a Time, visit redcloveradvisors.com.

Justin Daniels  1:35 

So I was thinking in light of our guests today in our content, I should be asking you to keep our ponytails tight.

Jodi Daniels  1:44

Very clever. And if you don’t know what we’re talking about, that would be one of the famous lines from Cody Rigsby at Peloton and know if you ride Peloton, we don’t have Cody here today. But I did have the great pleasure of taking a ride in person with Cody and it was so much fun. We have Jordan Smith, who is the VP of privacy compliance for Peloton and Jordan is responsible for the global privacy program. And before joining Peloton, Jordan advised, developed, and built compliance and global data privacy programs from the ground up for startups as well as publicly traded companies. And Jordan, we are so excited that you are here today to help us talk about building privacy programs. So welcome to the show.

Jordan Smith  2:32  

Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.

Jodi Daniels  2:34  

Now, do you have your ponytail tight?

Justin Daniels  2:38  

I’d need enough hair but-

Jodi Daniels  2:40  

What’s a good Dennis-ism.

Justin Daniels  2:41  

See that to me the best one is? I think what he says is I make recommendations you make Oh yes, that one’s pretty good.

Jodi Daniels  2:50  

I love that one. As you can tell we are avid peloton fans and have been for a long time. So we promise we won’t only talk about peloton instructors today.

Justin Daniels  3:01  

That would be your gig. I’m more interested to talk to Jordan. We’re gonna get into some interesting.

Jodi Daniels  3:05  

Okay, well, we’ll do it. Okay. All right.

Justin Daniels  3:08  

I’m gonna let you go.

Jodi Daniels  3:10  

No, no, you start. Firstly, I do the intro then you do the first question.

Justin Daniels  3:14  

Clearly, we’re out of sorts here today, Jordan. Talk to us a little bit about the evolution of your career and how you got to the exercise bike.

Jordan Smith  3:27  

No problem. Yeah, and I won’t talk I like and love each instructor to say I won’t I like that.

Jodi Daniels  3:36  

That was a really good teacher’s answer.

Jordan Smith  3:40  

That was very swift. Very neutral. So how did it you know, if you look on my LinkedIn profile, you’ll see that I have a BFA from NYU Tisch School of the Arts. And you’re, you’re gonna wonder how did this guy who was an actor end up in privacy? And, and truthfully, it’s because I was a horrible restaurant worker, people are still waiting for their food right now. And, and so I, I ended up doing a little bit of work in the news industry and, and then ended up at law school, right. And so from law school, I got involved with regulation and policy and really in compliance. But my first foray into privacy was when I was working at a consulting firm. This was back in, you know, early, early days when, you know, Kamala Harris was kind of putting out papers on privacy. And as a consultancy, I was doing work with some big fortune 500 companies, and even these big companies were starting to think about all the data they had, especially telecom companies. And I started to understand that really, it’s about brand at that point. It was about how do we look at the different personas and the branding and are people going to click on a privacy policy? Are they going to read it or those types of things. And so we started to develop, you know, at that consultancy of privacy kind of group, it didn’t go far, because I think we were ahead of our time, really. And that’s when I got my SAP and everything like that. And from then, I went on to working as head of compliance for a division of IAC. And that, you know, I was working with five of their companies. And at that time, you know, GDPR came into being, I had the CIP and I was looked at, like, hey, you know, I think we need some help. And so I started to help develop that program. You know, later on, we got a DPO, and we look to work together. But that’s really, you know, that was really starting in the regulations and trying to understand what’s happening and where, where it’s going, what we need to do to comply. These were the first types of conversations that probably we all had with our engineering groups and our product groups to really try to understand data and where it’s going. And that was the same time, you know, as I was about to leave, you know, the California laws came into being and then I went to even financial getting invovlved, with financial privacy and what’s happening there. And now I’m at Peloton and trying to help Peloton, you know, kind of build their privacy program to be the best it can be. And so that’s, that’s, that’s the path I’ve taken. And that’s why I’m here.

Jodi Daniels  6:26  

I think the start from an actor to now trying to connect all these different privacy laws is a really fascinating connection.

Justin Daniels  6:36  

I’m curious when you were pursuing your acting, and sounds like you were in a newsroom? Were there any kind of things that you were involved in? Or whatnot, I’d be interested? How do you think that skill set of acting comes in handy for your career now, because I find myself Jodi’s done it as well. We’ve been on shows, and sometimes people fire questions at you that you’re not ready for, and you kind of have to react, I’m curious as to how this background might help you in this area. Because at the top level, they look like they’re so different.

Jordan Smith  7:08  

Yeah, that they are. But one of the big things that I have, you know, taken with me is, you know, listening, listening skill, as an actor, you have to listen to your other actors, you can’t just react. And the same thing in the privacy world, all these regulations are being kind of thrown at you, let’s not react, let’s go talk to our teams, let’s talk to the product team, marketing team, whoever, and let’s listen to how they’re doing things, and really understand the product, the data, everything like that before you actually then start to help and work with them on implementing things. So listening is primarily key to what I’ve taken from my acting, you know, world into now, as well as I mean, you know, training is important for all teams. And so being able to get in front of teams, and really clearly explain why you’re doing what you’re doing is extremely — most important, and a little bit of the acting skill comes in handy there.

Jodi Daniels  8:08  

Well, speaking of teams, I’ve been saying a lot recently that privacy is a team sport, because it really needs support from all the different functional areas. How do you bridge privacy needs across different internal groups?

Jordan Smith  8:26  

Yeah, I mean, well, I think the first thing is, number one is the communication and listening, right? You have to, you have to do that. Kind of like that listening tour, right? When you whether you’re in a big company, or small company, or startup, whatever it is, you know, you have to understand what the company is doing, understand what they’re building towards, and listen to them, and really try to dive in with them as kind of, you know, hey, this, we’re working on this together. Right? And that’s, you know, for them to understand that compliance is not only about what you do, it should be about what they do and thinking about it, because it all comes back to make the company better. You know, I think the other thing is I mentioned training, it’s really important to get out there, right? And just start like doing lunch and learns or getting in front of, you know, the leadership team, and really educating them on not only, you know, the laws and regulations, but processes that need to be in place or what you need to do in order to be compliant. You know, I think the other thing is, is no matter what you do, it’s not to upset the applecart right. If you come in to a company that is new, or you know, that doesn’t have anything in place, or you come into a company that is has things in place, see during that listening torch, see what they’re using, see how they’re using it, see if you can implement some of the things gaps that you’re finding into a process that they already have. Because, you know, there is one thing that all product engineering marketing people hate is like I have to do another process, right? I’m already doing the security process, why do I have to do this privacy thing, right? So try to figure out if there’s things that you could piggyback off of, or kind of work with what they’re already doing in order to make sure it’s compliant. And the last thing is to find those people within the organization that can help you. Right. And those are, you know, we always talked about privacy champions, right. But it’s really connecting with those people. And that could be your security team and your or your compliance team. Or hopefully, maybe it’s even people in the product engineering or marketing teams, right, where you are kind of talking to them on a weekly basis, telling them, Hey, I need your help. Right? You’re in it, you’re on the ground, you see something, you say something come to me, let’s talk about it. It’s the relationship building really, that’s tried and true with kind of bringing those everyone together and making sure that they understand privacy.

Jodi Daniels  10:54  

I love how you started with the roadshow idea and action lunch and learns and really getting to know and talk to people. Because what we’re trying to do is connect people to a mission, and everyone in the organization has their mission and their role. And you’re essentially trying to help them understand why they also have to pay attention to you. And it can’t just be here’s this written email, or here’s this written policy, go read it now follow it. Instead, it’s that connection. It’s listening to what their questions are, their concerns, using AI, what we find to be really successful is using scenarios in their department. If you’re talking to the HR team, then talk about hiring people and use those stories and examples. If you’re talking to the marketing team, what’s important to them, to really be able to help them understand why this is good for everybody.

Jordan Smith  11:45  

Yeah, I have to tell you that real life examples are what the teams need. They don’t understand the policy. They’ll read the process, but giving them I mean, of how to do it, but also major fails, right? Like looking outside going, listen, here’s what could happen. Right? And it gives them some sense of “Oh, I get it, I get why you’re doing.”

So yeah, it really does.

Justin Daniels  12:10  

Jordan kind of building on this. I’m just curious, in a follow up again, full disclosure, Jodi and I both use the Peloton. Um, you know, for example, I clipped in this morning, and one of the things I like about it now is I’m trying to build up my vo to max so that I can sustain higher level workouts. And so you can have my Apple Watch connect to the Peloton, and now you’ve got my heart rate, you’ve got my zones. And obviously, this stuff really isn’t regulated under HIPAA, but taking that kind of an example to your point of how you educate some of these departments, does it always occur to them that that kind of information is really sensitive, and if they’re not careful with disclosing and how it’s collected, and what’s done with it, um, you really could get people really angry.

Jordan Smith  13:01  

Yeah, and especially now with, you know, the FTC coming out with some new things about, you know, beyond, you’re not talking about HIPAA, but other types of things. And it is really important to end those lunch and learns, in every day with the teams as they’re building these connections, for them to understand, you know, what is what is personal information? That was a big thing, when I started, we had several different definitions, right, because each team was looking at it differently. You know, of course, if you look at some state laws, depending on the division of the state, some of those are different as well. But you know, we had to come together. So they understood what is personal information, what is sensitive information, what, you know, what is PII underneath that, you know, all those things? And so it’s a constant conversation, you know, we have, you know, just to give some insight, every week, every other week, we have a meeting with the top leadership of the product teams, right and of the, to discuss, what are they working on? What are we — what are the issues that we see? So then if there’s something that comes up there and bubbles up there, that we could bring it to the team to say, Okay, let’s have a separate meeting with all of our teams to talk about this new implementation, this new thing you’re talking about, right? And so those are the types of things that we do to communicate so they understand right? Those things are really important. And especially as the laws and rules are changing daily, it seems like sometimes it’s even more important right to get out there and to do those like you said lunch and learns that we’re doing or even getting up in front of the whole company and explaining what’s going on.

Well, building on that approach that you’ve taken, we have a lot of privacy players listening or or general counsel’s and other other people who might have been anointed owning privacy. What might be three tips that you could share about how to build a privacy program successfully?

Sure, yeah, I think my three tips are more of the three phases of what you need to do. Thinking about it in building a program, and the first one, which we’ve kind of talked about a little bit, is alignment, right? alignment across internally first, right? Understanding the data that we’re using, and how we’re using it, talking to the teams about it, talking to teams about the products, looking at about transparency, right? How are we dealing with our privacy policy? How are you dealing with all the little things that people you know, connect to controls, all of those types of things that are in place, let’s look at those together. The other thing is, is getting with your C suite, understanding what your suite suite has to say, and is there a risk appetite, and we’ve looked at a risk appetite? What is our risk, right? Those are all things we have to get aligned on internally, from a privacy perspective. But then to think externally, to write you have to think about your stakeholders like your shareholders, your board members, your customers, what did they think about you? Right? How do they think about privacy when they think of your company, and so understanding all those things will help you get alignment of where you’re going, and where you need to go. As a privacy program, the second phase, or tip is, is accountability, making sure like during those lunch and learns, making sure people understand, hey, “Hi, I’m Jordan, I’m the privacy guy, I’m accountable for this,” right? I’m accountable to make sure everything is happening in an appropriate compliant way. But then also making sure there’s some accountability within each one of those teams, we talked about those privacy champions and what they should do, everyone talks about them, but they should have some accountability into, hey, I, here’s something happening, I want to talk about it with Jordan or with the privacy team. That is really important in building a program. So they understand that and then they work with you. And the last thing is adaptability with a program. Right? So it’s really important, whatever you build from a privacy program that has to be adaptable. Why I mean, look, every day, we have changing laws, changing roles across the world, what you do today may not be compliant tomorrow, based upon what’s happening, right. And so you have to look at, if I’m implementing something today and telling the marketing team, let’s implement this today, think about the future and think about can we adapt that? Is this really like a no, sometimes you can’t and it is what it is. But you have to think about that. Because what is a product today won’t be a product tomorrow, what is a you know, control today won’t be a control tomorrow. So you have to think about that when you’re developing and working with your teams, on the adaptability, and not and also your program as a whole, right? Being able to move and change as things come is really important. And so, you know, if you’re someone who doesn’t like to adapt, probably not a good time to be in the privacy world because of everything happening.

Jodi Daniels  17:57  

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. What I liked about what you shared is that adaptability and the champions, it goes to the whole idea of you’re really building a program, it’s not one and done. It’s just continuing to evolve all the different steps and components of a program. People I sometimes feel like right there, there’s this one piece, and then I check the box, I did that data inventory. I did that policy, whoa. But we have new laws, we have new interpretations. We have new products, those champions can help bring the newness and the business to you. And the program needs to be flexible to take that look at where it is today. And make sure it has whatever requirements are going forward.

Jordan Smith  18:36  

Yeah, nothing is set in stone now. I mean, it really isn’t and you just have to be you have to be able to move and, and adapt.

Justin Daniels  18:45  

I like it. So kind of continuing our global theme. How do you set up your team to manage privacy globally since Peloton is a global company?

Jodi Daniels  19:00  

Some of your favorite instructors are based in the UK as well. Just share really.

Justin Daniels  19:06  

You’re just — you’re such a fan.

Jodi Daniels  19:08  

That is what it does so well. Anyone’s less interested you can send me a message and I will tell you my favorite characters.

Justin Daniels  19:14  

Where and what about your favorite peloton Lululemon gear?

Jodi Daniels  19:18  

No, I’m worried we could just focus on Dr. Park. Sure, no.

Jordan Smith  19:26  

We do have good gear. Anyway.

Jodi Daniels  19:28  

Did you have good gear? Now? That’s true, brilliant partnership with Lululemon.

Jordan Smith  19:35  

So how do I manage a team globally? You know, I think, number one, you know, when I came in, I think that we were a little disjointed. And it’s really important in my world, to have some sort of everyone does this differently. In my world. I have a centralized understanding of privacy right and where you’re going, why because we need to have a fight. Foundation, we need to have a foundation in where we’re going, I talked about that risk appetite, you know, that could be different, right in different parts of the world in different states and different areas. But as a company as a whole, you have a risk appetite and an understanding. And so you have to build upon that and think about that globally and centralize that. So you know, that’s one of the things I did is trying to understand globally, how we can look at things in a in a manner that is a are these things that we could do across the globe, are these things that we might just do in the United States, or we should just do in the UK, or wherever. So we were always thinking about that. I think it’s also important, you know, when you talk about a team, now, it’s not essential, but it’s really helpful to have a team member in the countries that you’re in, right, or at least in Europe, and in Australia, or wherever you are. And that’s, you know, number one, you’re dealing with data subjects, you’re dealing with requests, it’s good to have it in real time, it’s good to have the back and forth that connection, it’s more personalized, then it’s also good, because then you’re dealing with the teams that are on the ground there. Right. And it’s really important to be part of those product team meetings that are in the international world — the marketing team. And so my team is part of those and part of that, so then they can come back during our weekly meetings and privacy meetings to talk about, “hey, what are they doing and thinking about globally, from a global perspective,” because listen, marketing is different globally than it is in the United States. Right. So those are areas where we have to figure out what we’re doing, you know, in Europe probably is going to be a little different than what we’re doing in the United States. And so we have to kind of think, okay, from a privacy perspective, maybe that’s an area where we were different, right? And so how do we talk about that with the international team, with the US team? And how do we bring together go, this is why we’re doing it over there differently. But it’s bringing those teams together on a weekly basis. So we understood and we talked to them. And, and truthfully, it’s really important also, and with a team is to have really, if you don’t have a team on the ground, is that really good outside counsel? You know, whether that be lawyers or or you know, someone else to help you because when you’re on the ground in that specific country, you really find out about what’s going on, you know, we’re listening to it from in the US, but we don’t know how it’s being sometime applied, or what’s happening, right? We just started having conversations about the DATA Act, right, that’s coming in not the EU AI Act, which is a whole nother podcast, but the DATA Act. And so you know, it and how that may apply to us how we’re going to deal with that, because that’s European? And do we need — what about the US? And how do we, you know, we truly, we have to bring the product teams. And so those are the types of things and conversations that if you have someone on the ground, whether it’s a person or outside, they will bring those to you and say, Hey, this is people are talking about this, we need to bring this forward. Let’s really, hopefully that answered your question, how do we manage what’s going on?

Jodi Daniels  23:08  

Well, privacy is, as we just talked about, really challenging. And when you have all these different teams and jurisdictions that you have to manage through, what would you say are some of the biggest challenges that the teams are facing right now? And what is working well, for you, maybe in addition to having that communication, what might be some of the other steps you’ve taken to successfully move the company through those privacy challenges?

Jordan Smith  23:36  

I mean, their challenges, really —

Jodi Daniels  23:38  

Challenge number one, figure out which law applies today.

Jordan Smith  23:41  

Yeah, right. Exactly. I mean, there are a myriad of laws now. Right. And, and we are, you know, every day thinking about them, you know, especially from the aspect of what we do, right, and you talk about, you know, sensitive information. What, do we have any sensitive information? You know, are we looking at Washington State, which is a new state with privacy laws, it’s really difficult. And a lot of these also make it sometimes more difficult for the consumer right to understand what’s happening. So how do we comply while making it easier for others to understand? You know, one of the things we do is we think about the business itself first, right? If we have one state that’s opt in for everything, and you know, another state that’s different in this, how do we look at that, right? Do we want to do opt-in for every state? Probably, you know, probably not, I don’t know, it depends on your situation. Because you’ve got to think about your customers, you have to think about things that might happen there. So it could be your company plan to do that, to just take the most strict and let it go it across, but what we do is look at it as a state, you know, some people do it differently and see if we can develop something for a state by state. You know, I shouldn’t say state by state but groupings by groupings, because some of them are all the same, and try to deal with it in that way. And so we talk to our product and engineering teams of, hey, what can we do? Is this making it more difficult for you? You know, is it easier to do everything the same? But then what’s going to happen on the business end? Right? So these are all conversations that not only happening with product engineering, you’re happening with your sales and business teams, you have, you know, you’re happening, you’re talking to your brand teams about everything, to understand how you can mold and move forward. You know, I think it if I can talk about one of the challenges that we’ve dealt with, you know, recently is, and this is something that probably a lot of people have to deal with, is we get a lot of emails to our privacy, email, you know, email address. And some of these were, you know, some of them deal with privacy, some of them don’t, some of them have to have don’t. And I had team members who are spending hours answering these right, and it’s good, we should answer them, we want to answer them. We’re a member-first company. But number one, I didn’t think privacy was the right place for people to answer these member support questions. So what did I do? I went, you know, I talked about finding those champions, finding those people in your company, I went to our members support, I said, Hey, I need your help. Let’s train some members to support people with privacy, let’s get a higher level of that member support. And let’s work with them, and have them help us with these emails. So that was one way, you know, and they know, they, they, they now know, the law that probably better than anyone else, they have, you know, ways to answer these people, they know when to escalate up to us, it is real, and it and it took hours of our day away, to do other things. And so that’s why you know, you’re talking about, you know, working with other teams, it’s one way to think about things in a better way. And that’s why having those relationships is really important. And a challenge that I think many people are having with all these inbounds that are coming in and how to deal with them.

Justin Daniels  27:13  

So, Jordan, I kind of want to ask a follow up question to this. And maybe I’m lobbing in unexpected questions already. If you have this inbox that’s getting overwhelmed. And you’re like, “Okay, I’m gonna train up people, because they’ll get the benefit of this knowledge?” And I’m just curious, because you mentioned the magic to letters before — AI. And another solution I’ve seen other companies do is okay, let’s use AI, to start responding to that. And if you had some kind of combination of AI, but had human intervention with your team behind it, I don’t know, is that something that would be considered? Or I guess, do you look at the risk profile and say, Hey, Justin, I think you’re getting a little too far out of your skis here. We’re not quite there yet. But that is an area where AI, if deployed properly, with proper human oversight, could be helpful.

Jordan Smith  28:09  

Yeah, and I want to be clear, here, we still see in the privacy team, every email, it’s still we have the access to every email that comes in. So even though our members’ support is answering and helping us, we still look it over, we just don’t have time. You know, AI is one of those areas that, you know, like every other company, you know, if you say you’re not looking into it, like people are like, yeah, right. I mean, it is something that every company is looking into. And from a member support area, you know, of course, we would look into how we would do that. But we would do it in a, in a transparent way, we’d make sure people understand that this is an AI, we would, you know, those are the types of things we would think about, but it is not something currently that, you know, we are, that I know of that we’re investigating. But AI is one of those things that every company is looking at how to do things better. So, you know, I’m not gonna sit here and say, we’re not looking at how to do things better at our company, and not putting things in a better, more transparent way with AI. But, you know, it’s kind of a, you know, we’re we’re kind of taking it as it comes and seeing what can help us and and does it really help our members? And if it does, then we’re going to let them know.

Jodi Daniels  29:28  

I think that makes sense. Well, given all the knowledge you have about privacy and security, what would be your best personal privacy or security tip you would offer all your non privacy friends when they ask you?

Jordan Smith  29:44  

Um, so I guess this is you know, we’ve had this kind of your line of communication, right, and how to communicate effectively with people. And one of the big things that I do in my company, is what I do is lunch and learns. It’s really hard because of all these laws to get the point across about privacy and all, you know, how do we be compliant? And how do we do these things? And so I tell them, “Listen, I’m gonna give you privacy one on one, I’m going to do it in three words, and it will help you help me.” And the idea is just don’t be creepy, right? And so if you follow that, and you follow your gut, when you’re creating marketing, or you’re creating a brand in your products, or whatever it is, if you get that gut feeling, come talk to me, come talk to my team, right? It’s really easy. And I know we all have our different understandings of what creepy is, but really everyone understands, there’s actually a great, there’s an article written in 2013. On this, I think it’s how to respond to the private privacy crisis or something like that. And I wish I could remember who wrote it. I think the Cato Institute was at the Cato Institute, where they knew the formula for privacy. If you really like formulas, like you know, your emotion, how you’re emotionally related, affected by the personal use of a product or those things. But really, it gets down to, if it’s creepy, if you feel it, talk to me, talk to my team, reach out, because that’s the start of it. That’s the start of the communication. And that’s what’s helping us and everyone understands that, right. And now I walked through the halls and people were like, don’t be creepy. And listen, they remember it. They remember, they remember, it’s easy.

Jodi Daniels  31:32  

They really do because I use the exact same thing. When I built the privacy program at Cox Automotive. I had the exact same thing. No joke, I would say, you know, you can’t cross the very official word here. Creepy. There’s a line. And that’s where we don’t want to cross. So I absolutely love that anyone listening thinking it doesn’t work. It absolutely does.

Justin Daniels  31:54  

I’m thinking the slide now needs to be for the bumper sticker company data collection. Don’t be creepy.

Jodi Daniels  32:01  

I guess there’s your next teacher.

Justin Daniels  32:03  

I think that could be it. This is awesome. I really thank you, Jordan. I hadn’t thought about it that way. It’s short and very succinct.

Jordan Smith  32:10  

It gets the point across and everyone understands it. There you go. Simple as that are

Justin Daniels  32:17  

because she doesn’t like my other one in privacy. Just say no to data collection.

Jodi Daniels  32:22  

Because not everyone understands that this one with

Justin Daniels  32:25  

What Jordan said don’t be. That’s awesome.

Jodi Daniels  32:28  

All right. That’s your new learning facts. All right.

Justin Daniels  32:30  

I’m gonna have to use that one. I will attribute it to you. So I kudos where they are. Do.

Jordan Smith  32:38  

Jodi said she used it so well, but you said it first.

Jodi Daniels  32:41  

I don’t count. Okay. I’m just me. I mean, you know, what, am I.

Justin Daniels  32:45  

There you have it. So Jordan, when you aren’t creating really cool taglines and managing a global privacy program for a well known international brand. What do you like to do for fun? Maybe some acting?

Jordan Smith  33:02  

You know, I don’t. I don’t act right now anymore. I you know, I do have a kids and so it’s mostly you know, coaching soccer and, and the other week it was nice weather here. So I actually took the golf clubs out and we went. My son and I, we went to the range and did some of that. I love photography. So I do some photography. But, and if I said, you know, you know, I get on my bike and I and I ride. That’s for fun, too. You know, I’m with every single instructor.

Jodi Daniels  33:47  

Well, Jordan, Jodi’s, favorite instructor, I don’t know, he’s not going to tell us to be my favorite instructor is you can absolutely send me a message. And I will tell you, I’m sorry. I think every instructor has a unique personality, and there’s different music and there’s different personalities, and there’s different types of rides and styles. And I think that’s actually what makes it so successful is it’s able to appeal to people who have varied interests. Honestly, the rides you take, I would never take because those aren’t the ones I want. You have your music, I have my music.

Justin Daniels  34:18  

Everyone’s happy. Music has nothing to do with it for me.

Jodi Daniels  34:21  

For me, it’s all about the music.

Justin Daniels  34:23

Let’s see. All right. In the crosshairs, focus on our guests.

Jodi Daniels  34:28  

We are so grateful that you came here today to talk about rights and music and also global privacy programs. If people would like to learn more, where should they go?

Jordan Smith  34:38  

So if they they always could reach out on LinkedIn I’m on LinkedIn I’m I’m although I’m privacy I am public, you could reach out their privacy at Peloton where you can always reach out to me there I would like I said we do look at every single email so you could reach out to me there as well.

Jodi Daniels  34:55  

Well, wonderful. Thank you so much. This has been a jam-packed episode so we have all kinds of good nuggets. So thank you.

Jordan Smith  35:02  

Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Outro  35:09  

Thanks for listening to the She Said Privacy/He Said Security Podcast. If you haven’t already, be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes and check us out on LinkedIn. See you next time.