Regulating Air Traffic for Drone Use

Intro  0:01  

Welcome to the She Said Privacy/He Said Security Podcast. Like any good marriage we will debate, evaluate and sometimes quarrel about how privacy and security impact business in the 21st century.

 

Jodi Daniels  0:21  

Hi, Jodi Daniels here. I’m the founder and CEO of Red Clover Advisors, certified women’s privacy consultancy. I’m a privacy consultant and certified informational privacy professional, providing practical privacy advice to overwhelmed companies,

 

Justin Daniels  0:35  

your ISP privacy consultant, I’m a with so since privacy.

 

Jodi Daniels  0:41  

I’m combining new words. Okay, very well.

 

Justin Daniels  0:45  

Hi, Justin Daniels here I am passionate about helping companies solve complex cyber and privacy challenges during the lifecycle of their business. I am the cyber quarterback helping clients design and implement cyber plans as well as help them manage and recover from data breaches.

 

Jodi Daniels  1:01  

And this episode is brought to you by Red Clover Advisors. We help companies to comply with data privacy laws and establish customer trust so that they can grow and nurture integrity. We work with companies in a variety of fields, including technology, SAS, ecommerce, media, professional services. In short, we use data privacy to transform the way companies do business. Together, we’re creating a future where there’s greater trust between companies and consumers. To learn more, visit redcloveradvisors.com

 

Justin Daniels  1:32  

are you buckled up for today’s episode?

 

Jodi Daniels  1:34  

I knew you were gonna say that. Well, you’re so excited.

 

Justin Daniels  1:37  

Yes. Well, that’s a lie. Oh, well, that’s a good call your brother. You did that? Well. Anyway, we’re excited because today we’re going to the drone zone. And today we have with us Dawn Zoldi, who is a colonel United States Air Force retired a licensed attorney, and Founder and Chief Executive Officer of P3 Tech Consulting, connecting people who have passion for advanced tech platforms with the plans, programs, policies and information they need to succeed. Dawn is the recipient of the 2022 air awards, People’s Choice, industry impactor and one of the Top Women in Aerospace and aviation to follow on LinkedIn. 2022. Dawn, good morning in Colorado.

 

Dawn Zoldi  2:27  

Hello, and good morning.

 

Jodi Daniels  2:29  

favorite topic and favorite city? Yes,

 

Justin Daniels  2:32  

exactly. Well, it’s great to have you on the show today. And you have a very eclectic background. And so we always like to start out and ask our guests How did your career evolved to your present role?

 

Dawn Zoldi  2:45  

Wow. Well, it started the beginning, I was born a baby. No, just kidding. No, I my time in the Air Force, you know, I got into an uncrewed aircraft law and policy, really, when I was more senior, you know, I was working at what they call Air Combat Command. And that’s the functional director for the large drones, the predators Reapers, and they’re in charge of the organizing training and equipping of the military forces on those aircraft. And so basically, I helped craft the Air Force and Department of Defense’s policy for domestic use of those aircraft, because, you know, they’re always deployed, frequently deployed downrange, right. And when I was there, around 2012, you know, Iraq was, at least theoretically shutting down, those birds are coming home, the pilots, we’re not used to flying in the National Airspace System, they very used to flying overseas, in conflict. And so those rules are completely different. And that’s that kind of started my journey, and got me super interested in this area of the law. And around the same time, so many things were happening domestically, and nationally, states were, you know, legislating on, you know, putting drone laws on their books, and Congress was talking about all these different things, they wanted to pass some of them dealing with privacy. So I know we’re gonna get into that. So that really started my journey and inspired me to just dig deep do a lot of research writing, I started doing a lot of speaking on the topic,

 

Jodi Daniels  4:20  

but people are really unaware, I think of the amount of data that drones collect. Can you share a little bit about what are some of the examples of data that these big drums collect?

 

Dawn Zoldi  4:33  

Well, so first of all, you know, I think the big Air Force drones that you’re talking about, you know, whether they’re flying over 30,000 feet above ground level, you know, it’s going to be probably more similar to like a satellite imagery, okay. But the more common drone would be the smaller drones, right, the small UAS or small uncrewed aircraft systems that are going to be flown at construction sites or in your neighborhood, maybe over your backyard. And so To answer your question, it really doesn’t matter whether it’s a small or large aircraft, it’s all about the sensors, right? So what sensors being used, and then that will drive, what kind of data is being collected. There’s everything from LIDAR to, you know, to I mean, there’s even a company here in Colorado in Boulder, Colorado called Black swift technologies, they’ve actually created a sensor that measures water, moisture and soil. I mean, so when you think about what kind of data or information can be collected, no pun intended, the sky’s the limit. It just depends what sensor you’re putting on the actual aircraft.

 

Jodi Daniels  5:41  

So I have a follow up question, can if I if a company or a individual goes and buys a drone, is there then a third party sensor market that I can go and get sensors and put them on the drone? Or is it something that the sensors come on the drone already equipped?

 

Dawn Zoldi  5:59  

Well, so there’s dumb drones, and they’re smart drones, the dumb drones are going to be like the really small hobby ones that aren’t going to have necessarily a camera on them, right, that’s going to be feeding back an example of a dumb drone. And this is another Colorado company. So hey, Colorado, but US drone soccer has these little, there’s really a thing US drone soccer, let that sink in for a second. It’s a little drone, and an exoskeleton that the kids will fly. But there’s, there’s no camera on that thing. They’re literally flying that thing freehand. Now the majority of drones are going to have some kind of a camera on it, just so you can see what you’re doing like on your app on your phone or on your ground control station. So generally speaking, the journals are going to have some kind of a camera or sensor that allows you to navigate and see what you’re doing. But also you can buy additional sensors. And some of these, like I said, can be super advanced thermal imagery, things like this. Now, when you’re talking about those that level of sensors, there’s they’re going to be kind of big projects, mostly professional drone pilots doing significant commercial operations.

 

Jodi Daniels  7:18  

Thank you for clarifying your own collection, the

 

Justin Daniels  7:20  

sky’s the limit,

 

Jodi Daniels  7:21  

it’s going to be the opposite of

 

Dawn Zoldi  7:23  

There you go. There’s the code. I can see it now.

 

Justin Daniels  7:26  

Oh, I think that might get set on Monday. But we’ll have to give, we’ll have to attribute that to Dawn. Anyway. So Dawn, I want to switch gears a little bit and talk a little bit about your thoughts around some of the drone pilot projects like what Walgreens is doing down with in Fort Worth delivering prescriptions. And, you know, and what needs to happen for that rollout nationwide. And specifically, what I’m interested in hearing you talk about, if you can is the issues around what’s called beyond visual line of sight.

 

Dawn Zoldi  7:56  

Okay, well, there’s only about 400 Plus pages of issues discussed in a newly released relatively newly released report called The beyond visual line of sight aviation rulemaking committee report. And so a whole host of things have to happen. Number one, you know, technology has to be, I think, perfected. Now, I think a lot of the technologies needed for command and control. Outside of the pilots site exists things like detect and avoid technologies, whether they’re baked into the aircraft or ground based surveillance systems. You know, that’s a very significant technology, I think, remote command center type technologies that where you can have a company that control more than one drone at a time, because it’s not efficient or effective to have one person flying a drone, like over a giant field for just say, as an example of precision agriculture. So technology is one thing that needs to be, I think, perfected, and widely available. And I don’t know that that is the case. Like as we sit here today. The second thing is obviously regulation. That’s why they had the FAA put together the aviation rulemaking committee. There is right now, part 107 is what governs commercial operations. And that part requires visual line of sight. And so what the FAA has been doing is granting like these exemptions and waivers, it’s a rigorous process. It’s again, the exception to the rule. So it’s not, it’s not routinized. In other words, it’s not something that everybody’s going to be able to do. So regulations, I think, need to be squared away. And then, you know, there’s an infrastructure piece of this and I know we’re going to talk about this, you know, a little bit more. But how is this is going to work as a practical matter. So the FAA has already said, we’re not going to use air traffic control. Okay. So they’re, they’re there. They have a concept of operations and literally that’s what It is a concept of operations called UAS traffic management. And they’ve worked on this with NASA, Europe’s actually doing some of this with their userbase out there. But the idea is low altitude airspace would be governed by these third party commercial service providers. So it could be like Verizon, could be T Mobile, could be pick another company, where that’s how the drone pilot is going to be communicating with this third party, and then there’s going to be this whole system, none of that, like exists today. That’s kind of significant. And then last, but not least, and I tried to do three things, but I’m going forward on this one on public perception, you know, I think for beyond visual on site, or any kind of operations that are going to be routinely done, especially in neighborhoods, you know, over people. The public has to accept it. Now, something like what you just mentioned, Justin, the idea that Walgreens can be delivering things to people’s doorstep, I think the public is kind of on board with that, unless, of course, it flies over your backyard, and it’s annoying you. But if you’re getting the medicine, woohoo, right, so things like drone delivery or positive news stories. But I also feel like we have a very long way to go when it comes to public perception of drone technology. I think, you know, kind of what Jodi alluded to earlier, there’s this perception that there’s persistent surveillance and you know, spying happening, you’re not only from the government, but now like, the kid down the street that has a drone is going to be doing the same thing. Right. So I think that is that is key to turning the tide of public perception and make these operations routine and accepted.

 

Jodi Daniels  11:45  

Well, they’re in our backyard a couple months ago, there really was some drones flying over our backyard, and it was bull. What drone is this? And why is it flying over my backyard? And what is it doing? And I always like in this situation to Google as a third party company, went around and took pictures from the outside. And there’s people in those pictures and they had of their home? No choice? Yes, it’s here. No, it’s not they went and took those pictures. But when we think about a drone flying over will, what kind of picture might it take, and if if it’s going to be another third party, and it’s not really a neutral third party for for better or for worse, some of the government agencies are at least considered a neutral zone. If instead, we have this third party company, that’s not so much a neutral zone, and they might be taking even more pictures, because it doesn’t seem to be as regulated of what they can and can’t do compare two decision was outside my home. So that seems to be okay. To take pictures of whatever we want as an individual. It’s kind of frustrating.

 

Dawn Zoldi  12:50  

Yeah, I mean, so appealing that you said a couple of things that I want to peel back. First of all, I think there is a misperception is the drone, drone taking pictures, it’s it’s the pilot, right? There’s a human behind this, at least right now. You know, there’s not fully autonomous drones flying around, at least right now. So there is a pilot flying. And so what they’re focusing on, I think, is something that’s part of training. And I know, we’re going to talk more about best practices and things like this, but that’s the first thing. You know, the second thing is I agree with you, you know, I was walking my dog the other day, and there was a drone following me and my husband walking our dog down the street. And I know enough to know that, like, I’m looking around, and I’m like, this thing isn’t in visual line of sight. Like they’re definitely violating the rule. You know, I’m like, why are you tracking me right now? Like, it was, it was very, it was creepy, and I didn’t like it. You know, and again, that comes down to the drone pilot, and people doing things correctly or not correctly. And that person was absolutely, you know, not doing something correctly, to your point about these kinds of third party service suppliers for UTM. Or, you know, on UAS traffic management, the idea is there, they’re not going to be necessarily, they’re not gonna be flying the drone, like, it’s gonna be the pilot, they’re gonna have to be communicating, right? They’re almost like a version of air traffic control, if you will. But there will be a data piece to that. Absolutely. data will be collected by those third parties, and how, just like with your cell phone, how is that all going to work? I mean, I think this is very much a work in progress, and to be determined, but definitely for folks like you that are experts in privacy and cybersecurity. This is something that will be job security for you.

 

Jodi Daniels  14:32  

I mean, if you think about the salsa, those companies have all collected that information and used it and sold it and shared it and monetized it. Yes, they could do that because it was them. If you have the sort of air traffic control being outsourced to a third party, just as an individual, I am hopeful that there will be some type of regulation otherwise, there’s they will prove the pattern that was done previously. Were that data will be used and shared and monetized.

 

Dawn Zoldi  15:03  

Yeah, I’m sure there will be eventually regulation. But I would also venture go out on a limb and say history tends to repeat itself. And they’re probably going to have, you know, that kind of standard thing that pops up on your screen that nobody reads that you say I accept, because you want to be able to actually do what you’re trying to do, even though it just said they’re going to be collecting the data, and they have the ability to sell to third parties. I mean, unless Congress steps in and kind of locks that down, I would almost assume that that is going to occur. But more more to follow. I don’t think it will in Europe, because the GDPR as the the general, the general, the General Data Protection Regulation, that’s right. But we ironically, we’re a little bit more liberal here. In a way when it comes to privacy, people individuals privacy,

 

Jodi Daniels  15:52  

they will be it will be very interesting to see the

 

Justin Daniels  15:55  

Dawn now I want to hone in on your legal background, and talk a little bit about the regulatory landscape. Because as we know, the FAA does not regulate privacy or security. However, I could see the FAA starting to regulate cybersecurity because it goes to safety of the craft and the infrastructure. And I’d love to get your thoughts about when you attend conferences, and when you speak your thoughts around the regulatory landscape in this country, at least, as it pertains to how it may evolve with privacy and cybersecurity.

 

Dawn Zoldi  16:29  

Well, so the so the beyond visual line of sight arc report, right, that aviation rulemaking committee report definitely addressed cybersecurity. So it’s something that for sure for beyond visual line of sight operations is going to be a component, I think of whatever final regulation does come out. cybersecurity, for any business, and I don’t care what the business is, and I’m preaching to the choir here, of course, is critical. And, you know, what we’re seeing now in the drone industry are companies popping up that have specific cybersecurity solutions for drone hardware, and drone operations. I’ll give you one example. So I know you to know this. But you know, I have my own podcast, the Dawn of Drones every Wednesday at 9am mountain on drone Life TV on YouTube. And I had a company from Israel called mobila. Come on my podcast in February. And they talked about their 360 cyber security solution that kind of sniffs out if someone’s looks like there’s a, an incorrect signal or vector coming in, and then it it takes at some point, if needed, if can actually take over control the aircraft and land it to make it safe, and things like this. So what I’m telling you is that cybersecurity absolutely is a concern for the industry. And what we’re finding is companies are creating cybersecurity solutions very specific to the industry. Very interesting.

 

Jodi Daniels  18:02  

Do you want to go next, Mr. Drone? Man?

 

Justin Daniels  18:05  

It’s a good question. Well, I guess, Dawn, I want to kind of double back a little bit. And you alluded to it earlier about infrastructure. And we talked a little bit about UTM, which is UAS traffic management. And I think it bears a discussion about if we’re not going to use the air traffic control for, you know, the, the commercial airliners, and we’re starting to use cell towers and existing infrastructure. It’ll be interesting to me to see how that will work if you have drones, and forget autonomous vehicles, and of course, cellphones, and you put them all on that network, because from a cyber perspective, if I’m a threat actor, that’s a huge common point of failure. And just love to get your thoughts were share with our audience, the other kinds of what I call support infrastructure will have to be developed to really take drones to mass adoption. Well, look,

 

Dawn Zoldi  18:58  

these enabling technologies we’re mentioning are critical. And we saw just with crude aviation, right, December, January timeframe, with the proposed rollout of 5g and then the FAA throwing down the red card and saying, Hey, this is going to interfere with life critical avionics. Okay, nobody thought of that until now. But this is just one example of many, you know, when you think about spectrum, you know, it’s a low density, high demand asset, there’s a limited amount of spectrum out there. So what are we using? How are we using it? You know, and to your point, you know, radio, even broadband, you know, radio frequency things like this. You know, can people hack it spoof it, all of that? Yeah. And that’s, that’s exactly why there are companies popping up that are focusing on cybersecurity for all of these things. But there’s there’s so many enabling technologies that need to be thought through very carefully to make sure there’s coexistence. And when somebody is using a drone, particularly for beyond visual line of sight, that that connection is secure. And you’re not going to have, you know, lost link, you know, fly away drones. You know, because it’s one thing if you’re in the middle of nowhere, like I was just talking to a gentleman who was a former Test and Evaluation, you know, test pilot, you know, out Edwards Air Force Base, right in the middle of the desert. It’s another thing if you’re, you know, in downtown Colorado Springs, and somehow, like you, you lose connection, then what? So yes, absolutely. All of these things need to be thought through. And there’s companies that, you know, I’ll give you one example, another example. This is another exhibit really company, they’re very much on the cutting edge of some of these enabling technologies. Pair zero actually created a parachute system. Oh, that’s in the drone that deploys. So that if there is some kind of a mishap, and it has to land or it lands in a manner, maybe that wasn’t planned, that at least the kinetic force is last because that parachute, right lessened the speed of that drone,

 

Justin Daniels  21:22  

if you’ve ever been to Israel Dawn what they do in cybersecurity, because I went on a mission.

 

Dawn Zoldi  21:28  

It’s on? Well, you know, Oren LKm, is the CEO of mobila, calm, and that’s something he said was, you know, if you want to have a cybersecurity playground to test your technology, and see if it works like Israel is the place to be because we’re constantly getting attacked. So they’ve kind of perfected their technology on the military side and transition that to the commercial side. Yeah, because I

 

Justin Daniels  21:56  

know, you’ve probably heard of that company fly tracks, which I believe is Israeli, they do drone operations. But I want to take the drone operations, because people are usually familiar with the, as you say, the commercial craft or the really nice hobby ones. But let’s talk a little bit about at a higher scale, where we’re talking about an autonomous quadcopter. Because I know outside of Orlando, they’re actually building something like a drone port, maybe you can talk a little bit to our audience, what the challenges look like when we talk about actually transporting people in some type of autonomous drone transport.

 

Dawn Zoldi  22:34  

Yeah, so that’s a whole nother level. Right? So when you talk about and what you’re talking about, primarily, they’re just in what we call Evie taller electric, vertical takeoff and landing vehicles. So companies like Joby aviation, you know, I think people would, would have heard of them as one example, they just put out I’m gonna say yesterday that they’re on track to start flying their aircraft. In 24. They just got part 135 certified as a commercial carrier. So is is that going to happen in two years? You know, I don’t know. That’s what they’re saying. But, you know, the whole regulatory scheme, the certification scheme for those air, so when you think about any, any part of aviation, there’s, there’s kind of three components, right? It’s the aircraft, it’s the airman, it’s the airspace, and all three needs to be addressed. And that’s the FAS purview. When it comes to aircraft, you know, they’re just now the FAA putting out policies on, you know, how people will be certified. And they’re not unlike Europe, they’re not creating their own new regulation. For this. They’re pulling in all the different parts that already exist for Rotorcraft and aircraft, depending if it’s fixed wing or right rotor wing. And so it’s kind of a hodgepodge. And then, you know, the training that goes along with that, do you train someone as just a normal general aviation pilot? Or do they need to be more like a helicopter pilot? And so all of these things are very much on the cutting edge and very much being discussed, like literally as we speak. And then of course, there’s the infrastructure challenges. Well,

 

Justin Daniels  24:16  

maybe it’s one of those where it may not happen in three years. But do you think it’ll happen in 10? Maybe it happens in seven,

 

Dawn Zoldi  24:24  

maybe, I mean, definitely, you know, Asia. There’s, there’s flights happening there. And Europe has been doing trials called the Gulf of Finland 2.0, where not only are they’re testing out their userbase or UTM concepts, but they’re flying autonomous drones and these larger aircraft as well. And EHang from China is one of those companies that’s working with Europe. So I mean, there’s a lot of kind of, let’s just call it r&d, research and development happening out there in this in this arena. Uh, it’s a matter of when when does this go commercial? And can people actually start making money off of this? And, you know, God saying 2024.

 

Justin Daniels  25:10  

So one other thing I wanted to ask Dawn, because I know you speak often you go to conferences, I know you actually do see a lease for attorneys, when you’re at these conferences. How much content when it comes to drones relates specifically to cybersecurity and privacy issues? Or is that something that’s more out of sight out of mind until like, what we talked about with the FAA and the signals it came to bear at like the last minute?

 

Dawn Zoldi  25:36  

Yeah. And that was more of a safety issue, not even so much a cybersecurity issue. But I’d say those issues are very much out in forefront. I actually gave a lecture, a presentation at absi exponential, in addition to my law Tech Connect workshop, that was about privacy. And so and they asked me for that, that wasn’t something I proposed to them, like, Hey, you all should be talking about privacy. They said, Hey, we want to talk on privacy. Can you do it? So, um, you know, the three pillars I call them there’s like, safety, security and privacy, I think are always being talked about in this industry. I think they’re always on the forefront of people’s minds.

 

Jodi Daniels  26:16  

Well, that makes me happy. Yes, sir. should make you happy to us. Yeah. Thanks. See at the tail end of other technologies. So on something so important, I think it’s, it’s good to hear that, that we’re there.

 

Justin Daniels  26:28  

I think this industry is different than say Dawn cryptocurrency because if you lose all your money, that’s really bad. But if we don’t do things, right, with drones, or autonomous vehicles, they run into things people get hurt, they have kinetic force, it’s something that you can feel, which is why I think it gets looked at different. Yeah, I

 

Dawn Zoldi  26:47  

think so too. And, you know, when you think about privacy in particular, I think the bigger concern is on the government side, and not so much in the private drone pilots side, because what are they going to do? Or they’re going to post the video of you and your backyard up on YouTube? I don’t know. You know, I don’t I don’t think so. I’d be more concerned about kind of the government using drones. And then for for what purpose? You know, is it being used properly? Are we, you know, minimizing the collection of non targets? Let’s put it that way. Are we? Who’s getting to see that information? And how long are we retaining it? I mean, those are principles that in the military we call intelligence oversight. And those are principles that President Obama in 2015 codified for the federal government. You know, but I don’t know that at the state, local, tribal territorial levels, that there’s that kind of level of policy to make sure you know, that those things are being protected. Have you guys have heard of the just had a recent development in Lakewood township versus Maxa? Case? Michigan? Yeah, the Michigan case. You know, there’s an example where, you know, you had a township that wasn’t real happy with a couple that believe they had a junkyard in their backyard. And instead of just going out and getting administrative warrant, they hire a drone pilot, to basically fly over and take pictures, you know, and then admitted to right, find these people and do civil penalties against them. So the case keeps bubbling. And the Court of Appeals said, you know, violates the Fourth Amendment should have got a warrant, and made its way up to the Supreme Court of Michigan who said ticket back let’s, we want them to address whether or not the exclusionary rule applies to non criminal cases. So this thing keeps going on. But I mean, why is it different just because it’s a drone, you know, a warrant is a warrant is a warrant, you know, probable cause and reasonable expectation of privacy. So it’s interesting times,

 

Jodi Daniels  28:55  

that is interesting times. So given all this privacy and security conversation, we always like to ask, what is a tip that you might offer? to the audience?

 

Dawn Zoldi  29:05  

Yeah, I think Well, depends. lawyer answer is it depends on who the audience is. You know, if it’s, if it’s someone in the drone community, what I would say are some of the drone business, I said, have a privacy policy, you know, like, in other words, think about privacy before you conduct an operation. You know, what are you doing to minimize the effect, you know, the collection of information on people or think like, if you’re if you’re doing if you’re filming a construction site, what are you doing to make sure you’re not scooping up? All kinds of other information or pictures of people? And are you can you blur those faces out if you happen to, you know, especially if you’re giving it to a client. So having a policy sink, thinking those things through and by the way, those policies I think should be written by attorneys, because privacy law, you know, is is state specific and Um, I think people get into trouble when they go online and just say, Oh, look, I can buy a template for for, you know, however many dollars, well, that template may not fully address not only the collection needs, but then also the back end, you know, like you have states like California and the Consumer Privacy Act, it actually can impact a drone business, because of the broad nature of of that information, and where you’re putting it and this idea that you have to notify people and give them the right to dispute it almost like the right. The European regulations. So that’s something where I think you would be wise to speak with an attorney.

 

Jodi Daniels  30:40  

Very well. Oh,

 

Justin Daniels  30:42  

Dawn, last question. So when you’re not outside, when you’re not advocating for drones flying a drone? What do you like to do for fun?

 

Dawn Zoldi  30:51  

That is so interesting, because, you know, the last few years probably like you guys, I’ve been in kind of my basement right with COVID just started getting out. What do I do for fun, I, I love to just get outside walk my dogs. And I love going to the movies just saw Maverick, which was phenomenal, by the way. And just, you know, kind of going out with my my family, my husband friends for dinner and drinks. So that’s kind of the scope of my excitement lately. And it’s probably, I’ve probably scaled back a lot of what I used to do just because of COVID. And now just in the habit of kind of staying closer to home,

 

Jodi Daniels  31:34  

there’s no no right answer. So whatever, whatever works well, we’re so grateful for all that you shared, if people would like to learn more and connect with you where and how is the best place to do so?

 

Dawn Zoldi  31:46  

Yeah, absolutely. So my email is dawn@p3techconsulting.com. And you can connect with me all over social media either as Dawn Zoldi or P3 Tech. You know, I’m on a very active on LinkedIn, obviously, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and I have my own Patreon, which is a subscription. So you can pretty much find me anywhere. And I would encourage you to follow me if you’re interested in drones, advanced Air Mobility, advanced technology. And like I said, I’ve got not only the dawn of drones podcast, but we’re launching two new platforms, one on leadership and one on tech news, Full Tilt, tech industry leadership talks and full crew. So those also have their own handles and website. So you can check that out and kind of primarily under full crew.io. So yeah,

 

Jodi Daniels  32:41  

thank you. Yeah, well make sure you include all of those in the show notes. And it’s rare, but I’m gonna let your destined have the last

 

Justin Daniels  32:47  

word, but the ball off my hair. But it’s one of your happy. Well done. Thank you. It’s a pleasure to get to be introduced to you and I look forward to continuing our conversation.

 

Dawn Zoldi  32:59  

Absolutely. And you know, to extend you guys have an attorney crowd out there. Just tell them the mark. I’m telling them now to mark their calendars for since you love Colorado, you need to come to Denver, May 7 2023 au VSI, the Association for uncrewed Vehicle Systems International exponential. I’m going to be doing another law Tech Connect workshop there. So I hope to have you all there.

 

Jodi Daniels  33:25  

That sounds super fun. Thank you so much for sharing. All right.

 

Outro  33:33  

Thanks for listening to the She Said Privacy/He Said Security Podcast. If you haven’t already, be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes and check us out on LinkedIn. See you next time.